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Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

theguardian.com

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Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#141

Post by kergonath »

ZaoLahma wrote: post #109
rwmj wrote: post #3

It makes sense that road and parking pricing should be proportional to the size and impact of your car. Hopefully this will encourage manufacturers to produce more smaller cars - it's getting somewhat hard to buy a small car these days. I'd love to have a Japanese-style Kei car.

It would be nice if the rules for 2 wheeled vehicles could be refined as well. Here (not France) you can drive an EU moped (45km/h) on a car license, which could (and should!) be a great alternative to a smaller car. The problem is that it's difficult to get to and through the city without touching the highways, which are strictly off limits for the mopeds for obvious reasons. What's needed is something in between a…

> Here (not France) you can drive an EU moped (45km/h) on a car license, which could (and should!) be a great alternative to a smaller car. The problem is that it's difficult to get to and through the city without touching the highways, which are strictly off limits for the mopeds for obvious reasons.

In France you can ride a scooter or motorcycle with a displacement < 125 cc with a car license. Certainly not ideal for long trips, but it’s enough for small stretches of motorways in the daily commute. Indeed it’s a good alternative to large cars but it can be dangerous depending on the state of the roads.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#142

Post by KptMarchewa »

strawberryfie wrote: post #106
Fradow wrote: post #75

This article leaves a lot of details out. As a Parisian who's been following this with attention, here are a few details: * first, the "SUV" part is the intent, but not the reality. It's actually by weight: over 1600kg for ICE and 2000kg for electric/hybrids. A lot of French SUVs fit under those restrictions (for example Peugeot 2008/3008). It's unclear to me if there is really something specific to target those SUVs…

It’s interesting that new legislation is baking in the idea that more “sustainable” cars can weigh a lot more. Disappointing that this means we won’t tackle the other externalities of personal motorised transport including size, safety and visibility issues, wear on public infrastructure, and sheer amount of extra material people use to get themselves around.

They are more "dense" rather than necessarily larger.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#143

Post by tremon »

greatgib wrote: post #115

This vote was a total joke. For example, the question on the ballots was totally different and like "do you approve bad things"? But if you want to laugh a little bit, look at the official results: https://x.com/lachape_one/status/1754271878737203536?s=20 The total of ballots "FOR" + "AGAINST" in one district equal to 108% ...

Perhaps you should not use Xitter to get your "official" news?

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#144

Post by tpm »

adrianN wrote: post #123
tpm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU current short-term trends don't matter that much as long as the scheduled fleet emmision rules will come into force as is the current regulation. That means from 1.1.2025, for passenger cars 93,6 g CO2/km average (which is impossible with ICE-only cars of current sizes and technology) and the manufacturer pays a fine for anything above that. But that can be relaxed if they sell at least 25% EVs (0 g CO2/km)…

It's pretty easy to achieve fleet goals with plugin hybrids, since they have ridiculously low emissions on the standard tests (unlike in reality).

Which is why new vehicles (since 2021) have a On-Board Fuel Consumption Meter and this data is then collected by the EU.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#145

Post by Fradow »

erostrate wrote: post #102
Fradow wrote: post #75

This article leaves a lot of details out. As a Parisian who's been following this with attention, here are a few details: * first, the "SUV" part is the intent, but not the reality. It's actually by weight: over 1600kg for ICE and 2000kg for electric/hybrids. A lot of French SUVs fit under those restrictions (for example Peugeot 2008/3008). It's unclear to me if there is really something specific to target those SUVs…

> this is only for paid surface parking for non-residents. Residents price is not impacted (which is controversial). Underground parking is private and not affected. Free parking (outside of 8AM to 8PM Monday to Saturday) stays free for everyone. If my end goal was to apply this to everyone at some point, I would probably start with such a restricted law, then extend it step by step later.

The news makes people focus on this particular vote, but it's just yet another small step in the multitude of other steps to curb car use in Paris.

It started at least 10 years ago (current mayor that really pushes the issue was elected in 2014, I'm not sure it's the actual starting point), and we saw:

* bike lanes. Lots of bike lanes. Generally replacing traffic lanes and parking spots.

* several pedestrians zones replacing traffic lanes (especially in front of schools).

* Crit'air restrictions (car pollution rating, derived from Euro rating). You cannot drive a polluting car in Paris anymore.

* reduction of the speed limit from 50km/h to 30km/h in Paris, and from 80km/h to 70km/h on the Périphérique (highway circling Paris)

* there is no longer any always-free surface parking spot, and price has been raised a lot

And I'm very probably forgetting a few.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#146

Post by greatgib »

touwer wrote: post #130
greatgib wrote: post #115

This vote was a total joke. For example, the question on the ballots was totally different and like "do you approve bad things"? But if you want to laugh a little bit, look at the official results: https://x.com/lachape_one/status/1754271878737203536?s=20 The total of ballots "FOR" + "AGAINST" in one district equal to 108% ...

Fake news. This is the real one https://www.paris.fr/pages/plus-ou-moins-de-suv-les-parisien...

Not fake news, they just updated the web page after social storm...

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#147

Post by lagadu »

robertlagrant wrote: post #82
seydor wrote: post #10

There are small SUVs and they are great. They are popular for a reason: they have Utility, and you can use them slightly offroad. OTOH an X3 or other luxury suv is basically stupid concept other than a display of wealth.

An X3 isn't massive. We have a mid-size people carrier and although it's a different (and less practical) shape, it's a very similar size. An X7 is more what you're talking about, which almost no-one has.

The X3 is big (D segment I believe) and larger by a decent margin than most other cars on the road. Even the X1 is not anywhere near close to being small (C segment?).

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#148

Post by tremon »

hetspookjee wrote: post #36
buro9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight is the best way to tax vehicles. It correlates to the amount of energy needed to move it, generally with the size of the vehicle, and highly with the particulate pollution from brakes and tyres (yes I'm aware of regenerative braking), as well as the amount of wear and tear on the roads and infrastructure, etc. European cities were never built for large vehicles, we should be going towards smaller vehicles, a F…

While I agree entirely I just wanna correct you for a bit: The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR)refers to the maximum weight a vehicle is designed to carry including the net weight of the vehicle with accessories, plus the weight of passengers, fuel, and cargo, which is indeed a hefty 3375 kg. The Weight Unladen (EU) is still a ridiculous 2810 kg for the EQS SUV 580 4matic

Wait, what? A 3-tonne vehicle that can only carry a measly 500kg of cargo, including the driver and passengers? Who approved that idea, and how come they still have their job?

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#149

Post by tomp »

infotainment wrote: post #5
rwmj wrote: post #3

It makes sense that road and parking pricing should be proportional to the size and impact of your car. Hopefully this will encourage manufacturers to produce more smaller cars - it's getting somewhat hard to buy a small car these days. I'd love to have a Japanese-style Kei car.

Agreed -- the popularity of giant vehicles is basically a tragedy-of-the-commons situation, and probably regulation is the only way to fix it at this point.

Yeah once you have kids, you realize this isn't the truth but actually just FUD.

Re: Parisians vote in favour of tripling parking costs for SUVs

#150

Post by quonn »

HenriTEL wrote: post #138
quonn wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fair only to young people without kids. The Model 3 barely manages to be below that limit and it might work with kids (although no doubt the Y is better for that). But it is difficult to use for old people because it is so low that getting in and out is not easy and making it less low will make it less efficient and require adding a larger battery - making it heavier.

No, even the long range still has a 150kg margin. The problem is that people use their large car to go on vacation with the children for their work commute, be it an SUV or a long rage EV, that's not sustainable. Especially in a town like Paris where you have good public transports (could be better, granted).

So it's more sustainable to have two cars instead of one?

For an EV most of the emissions are created during production, so the less production the better. It's best to have one sufficiently flexible car, even if it's bigger, since that minimises production emissions.

Also the large car is not just used to take the kids on vacations, but typically all the time.

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