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Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

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Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#151
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if what you say is right, the pendulum, at the consumer level, will soon swing back the other way the first time that someone can't access the "cloud" on a trip or forgets to pay their "cloud access bill" (phone/internet whatever) and then gets locked out of ... well, everything. One day the idea that you don't have internet access will be just as silly as saying you don't have electricity. Its in the very infan…

Well this is because the word "computer" needs to be dismantled a bit. Computers as a personal mainstream entertainment device will eventually work much like television. Data retention policies will be at the whim of the content distributor and consumers will select from sets of content dictated by different price packages. Computers as midrange workstations for engineers, artists, musicians, and scientists aren't go…

In the US, computers might work like television. In some other countries, they might work like cell phones: always bought unlocked, no service lock-in. It just depends on what we tolerate. There's no historic inevitability to the kind of peculiar consumer exploitation that goes on in the US in markets like cable TV or cell phone data plans.

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#152
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're moving toward a computing world where hard drives don't even exist. That will only happen when my pipe hits SATA speed.

Sure, but compare your pipe speed today with your pipe speed ten years ago. I don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility that we will begin to see devices with no local storage within three years. Take Google Music, for instance. You can have 200 GB of music "on your phone", even though none of it is actually stored on your phone.

>Sure, but compare your pipe speed today with your pipe speed ten years ago.

You mean the 3Mbs DSL I had 10 years ago versus the 3Mbs DSL that's still the fastest thing available at my house today?

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#153
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's really just addressing the elephant in the room by saying that as of yet the whole open source desktop mess has failed to produce anything that looks like a compelling , easy to use desktop. If Google can produce a Linux based operating system that addresses the needs of casual users... [they can] simply eat everyone elses lunch. He also addresses the elephant in the room that the major Linux UI pushes that cons…

For most of the 90s I remember hearing how Linux was so stupid because it was derivative and behind the times and never innovated. Now whenever there is an innovation, it is reviled and everyone asks for the interface which looked roughly like Windows 95. So I guess they listened to the wrong messages.

What I remember people complaining about in the 90s was that UIs were unstable and it was really hard to get X set up at all. Any complaints they had about UI design were muffled by the tears of joy they shed when they finally saw the black X on the screen instead of junk and patterns. But in all seriousness, I'm not against innovation at all. I'd just like to hear about some innovation aimed at existing Linux users rather than insisting that the users who really matter are the casual, non-techie users necessary for mainstream desktop adoption.

Targeting "casual" users has resulted in some valuable work such as better stability and completeness in many programs, simpler configuration interfaces for many things (such as wireless configuration GUIs that were better than Windows'), and better support for multimedia. However (leaving aside the fact that those were all things that techie users were begging for anyway) there was a downside. Customizability and configuration options disappeared. People made assumptions about "normal" users that implicitly labeled a large chunk of the Linux community abnormal. Case in point: if you configured your wireless connection using NetworkManager and then switched to a different desktop environment, your wireless connection might not work anymore. That might sound like a bug, but it wasn't. It wasn't designed to work that way. How could that be considered remotely acceptable? Because normal people don't use alternative desktop environments. (Thankfully, I've since read that NetworkManager accepts plugins that write to the correct system configuration files, though I don't know if distros test and install them.)

And where's the payoff? What was the payoff supposed to be, anyway? Back in the nineties and early 2000s many people assumed Linux had to make it on the mainstream desktop in order to be successful, but I think we've put that that misconception behind us. Yet people still hold up the "casual user" as the gold standard that Linux is supposed to cater to, as if it were a moral imperative. Few Linux users fit that stereotype. It isn't that we're concretely knowledgeable about Linux. If you put ten randomly chosen Linux users in a room, chances are that for every component of a running Linux system there will be somebody in the room who is utterly unfamiliar with how it works or how to configure it. Obviously we should cater to ignorance, if only so we have the luxury of remaining ignorant ourselves. But there is a general savoir faire with computers that it is acceptable to assume. By savoir faire I mean whatever factor it is that explains why I am the person in my family who always gets a call on the phone when someone needs help with Windows 7. Even though I've never developed on Windows, haven't used Windows for anything more than e-mail, web browsing, and Office in ten years, even though I haven't used Windows personally in six months, even though I've never used Windows 7 or Vista at all. They still ask me for help with Windows 7, and usually I can help them.

All I'm saying is that it's acceptable for Linux UI designers to assume that the people using their UIs are likely to resemble current and past Linux users. Take a break from innovating for projected, postulated, hoped-for users. Innovate for the ones we already have instead.

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#154
post #37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's been indexing the web and Amazon executing bazillions of legally binding sales without a "major data loss event" for 13 years now. I don't think that's really likely. At that scale, backups aren't really a .serious problem, as you have to have redundancy in the system for reliability reasons anyway. A "major privacy event" seems quite likely though.

> Google's been indexing the web and Amazon executing bazillions of legally binding sales without a "major data loss event" for 13 years now. I don't think that's really likely. At that scale, backups aren't really a .serious problem, as you have to have redundancy in the system for reliability reasons anyway. How do you know that there hasn't been a major data loss event for Google? Would you be able to tell the dif…

I know of at least one incident at Google in the early part of the last decade where the entire crawl got deleted (or otherwise corrupted), meaning results didn't get updated for an extra six weeks or so.

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating two different things: Local Storage/caching, and the medium it is stored on, spinning disks. The data may live in the cloud, but it will be heavily cached locally. We'll still need several GB or TB of local storage, be it spinning disks, SSDs or permanent RAM. Grandparents won't want to be without the home video of their grandchildren just because their WiFi router stopped working or their ISP is ha…

We'll still need several GB or TB of local storage, be it spinning disks, SSDs or permanent RAM. Yes I should have clarified -- I expect memristors to be on the market within a few years. Once they're ready I bet we'll see all laptops and mobile devices move over to them. Between memristor based local storage/cache, and large/cheap cloud storage, I don't see much reason for having hard disks, software, and data in ou…

Between memristor based local storage/cache, ... I don't see much reason for having hard disks, software, and data in our local computers for very long.

These apps will still be stored (permanently cached as a web-app) and running on the local box and able to run in an offline mode. We won't be installing pre-packaged software that we have to upgrade manually, but we'll still need a powerful machine to run them; not a thin client.

The mechanisms whereby the software gets on our machines may change, but it's still going to be on our machines.

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