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The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#61

Post by Rapzid »

lolinder wrote: post #11

> For a time, at what may have been the height of the internet’s thrall, it became popular to pretend that the digital and material worlds were continuous—that the “real” one had no special meaning, because cyberspace had become a part of it. That turned out to be wrong. We live in cars and on couches and, separately, we also live on phones. Apple believes it can resolve this conflict—that the digital and material wo…

Another take on that is that AVP is blinding you to reality. You are seeing the reality it wants you to see.

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#63

Post by goatlover »

jsz0 wrote: post #58

There's something very gross to me about this product. It digital gluttony. It's like buttering your pop tarts. It's like adding extra sugar to your Cola. It's like wearing a diaper so you don't have to get up off the couch. At some point isn't enough enough? How connected do you have to really be? How much more engagement do you need to feel something? How many screens do you need to fill the hole in your heart? I w…

Have you ever put butter on a Pop-Tart? It's so frickin' good Have you ever put butter on a Pop-Tart? If you haven't, then I think you should

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#64

Post by garrickvanburen »

dr_kiszonka wrote: post #49
garrickvanburen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the less connected we've become as people. This ^. I'm hesitant to embrace a tech that so clearly and obviously keeps people separated. At least with a phone, you can position it so 2 people can view it simultaneously.

True. At the same time, VR could afford richer interactions with those who live far away from you. For example, about 30% of older adults in the US live alone. Of course, it would be better to visit or live with them, but that is often impossible.

One side of my family has a weekly Zoom call with elderly parents, scheduled for 2-3 years at this point.

Every other week, someone needs to call said parents and walk them through connecting to Zoom. Again.

Introduce a VR headset? Absolutely not.

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#65

Post by somewhereoutth »

jsz0 wrote: post #58

There's something very gross to me about this product. It digital gluttony. It's like buttering your pop tarts. It's like adding extra sugar to your Cola. It's like wearing a diaper so you don't have to get up off the couch. At some point isn't enough enough? How connected do you have to really be? How much more engagement do you need to feel something? How many screens do you need to fill the hole in your heart? I w…

It is rather end-stage technoscene isn't it. Along with AI and crypto, all solutions looking for a problem (and causing many problems themselves).

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#66

Post by gboss »

lazide wrote: post #41
api wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not the tech. The problem is what’s on it. Social media in particular runs on dividing us, since maximally triggering or addicting content maximizes time spent staring at the app. This isn’t a new observation. I recall reading back in the 90s about how the problem with TV is what’s on the TV. The tech is fine. The incentives for media are all perverse and destructive.

That’s like saying alcohol is fine, it’s the incentives of the people selling and using it. Which isn’t wrong necessarily. But definitely is working hard.

I don’t think that’s what the GP is saying. It’s more like beverages exist but certain ones are worse for you (like alcoholic ones) than others. It’s what’s being consumed that is important not its medium.

I don’t know if I agree with that just that you’re characterization is off. I think the medium is the message.

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#67

Post by EPWN3D »

I'm sure I'm a pollyanna about all this, but every time some new piece of tech or innovation comes out, English majors crank out "What Hast Thou Wrought" pieces like nobody's business.

The truth is nobody knows how this thing will integrate into human society. Personally I think the social media hysteria is overdone, and the human need for connection is probably stronger than technology. Time and time again, what we've seen is that technology amplifies individual characteristics rather than changing them.

Of course the press is obsessed with the goings on of social media. They themselves spend all their time obsessing about their ratios on Twitter. But there are plenty of people out there who don't, and they don't get noticed because the opinion leaders can't get outside their own little bubble of Tik Tok, Twitter, Reddit, etc.

Yes, certain people already predisposed to isolation will use technology as a substitute for human connection. But those people are going to do that anyway.

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#68

Post by smaudet »

sanderjd wrote: post #39
threeseed wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to make this judgement now when the headset has just been launched. But over the coming decades we are going to new see new types of social interaction that could enhance the world rather than break it apart. For example, being in Australia conferences in the EU and US require a 14 hour flight time and days of adjusting to a new time zone. Likewise there are people working two jobs, have children or are a c…

> It's easy to make this judgement now when the headset has just been launched. But over the coming decades we are going to new see new types of social interaction that could enhance the world rather than break it apart. So ... in many ways my life has been this "over the coming decades" first the internet in general, then social media, then smart phones. And at each of those steps I said what you just said about thi…

See also the fallacy "its just technology the real problem is humans and how they use it".

When used as an excuse this is disingenuous - the problem is tech - without it, humans were better off in whichever way it caused harm. We're just dumb hairless monkeys without our tools, barely harmful at all.

Tech can have some benefits, but it also usually has some serious issues. If it didn't, we'd never need to update our tech to be safer, or pass legislation surrounding it. These issues exist regardless if there are humans driving or not - the only solution for some hypothetically superior race of beings is to not use it, at least in that iteration/form.

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#69

Post by smaudet »

gboss wrote: post #66
lazide wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s like saying alcohol is fine, it’s the incentives of the people selling and using it. Which isn’t wrong necessarily. But definitely is working hard.

I don’t think that’s what the GP is saying. It’s more like beverages exist but certain ones are worse for you (like alcoholic ones) than others. It’s what’s being consumed that is important not its medium. I don’t know if I agree with that just that you’re characterization is off. I think the medium is the message.

Alcohol is a bad comparison, due to the medium/carrier problem. Its both the medium and the carrier.

But to stretch the analogy, drinks are still an issue "because its the people hawking them have the wrong incentives". It could be sugary drinks, alcoholic ones, etc, they are all bad (even water). However this doesn't say much about why these drinks are all bad, which has nothing to do with incentives.

Its a similar argument for TV/social media. Sure bad people exist, uninteresting argument. That ignrores the real question of why they are bad.

Re: The Apple Vision Pro is spectacular and sad

#70

Post by smaudet »

EPWN3D wrote: post #67

I'm sure I'm a pollyanna about all this, but every time some new piece of tech or innovation comes out, English majors crank out "What Hast Thou Wrought" pieces like nobody's business. The truth is nobody knows how this thing will integrate into human society. Personally I think the social media hysteria is overdone, and the human need for connection is probably stronger than technology. Time and time again, what we'…

Wasn't this about it being a terrible unusable product though? Not a "what has thou wrought" bit at all.

I think this has convinced me we need a new technology altogether, not cameras + screens for AR to be feasible.

The use as a movie theatre, if they could eliminate the weight, maybe an interesting use. But not a good AR headset, and probably never without eliminating the lag/precision issue (hint, you aren't allowed to digitize the universe).

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