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Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

prospectmagazine.co.uk

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Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#451

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #430
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> high social trust. With the rise of ML, and people salivating over the data inherent in currency flow, I suspect that trust may soon go the way of the dodo. In the US, anything that makes money tends to get helped along. Regulators look the other way (until some knucklehead starts stealing from rich people), and even the lowest-level employees become "stans" of their bosses. I am a believer in the promise of social…

> I am a believer in the promise of socialism, but, like communism, it's something that works on paper, but people screw it up. The premise itself is screwy because it doesn't account for human nature.

Good point.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#452

Post by nikau »

graemep wrote: post #351
noodlesUK wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly suspect that the reason cash is seen to be cheaper for these businesses is that they don’t report all of their cash income to their tax authority, rather than because cash is actually that much cheaper. Alternatively, they were counting the time they spent cash handling as a business owner as zero cost, which isn’t really true.

Those are reasons some people prefer cash, but it does not explain the need to ban passing on card fees. Someone willing to take the risk of the severe penalties for dodging taxes would not be deterred from offering discounts for cash payments because they broke another law by doing so. They can also avoid the law by not taking card payments at all. I have found that many people in businesses traditionally took cash…

They can't just stop taking cards as they would lose a lot of customers.

Most small places not declaring cash want to stay off the radar, they use tricks like using old cash resisters that don't have trackable invoice ids.

Food places are rife with it as they can claim excess food was thrown out as spoiled.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#453

Post by tastyfreeze »

kuchenbecker wrote: post #431
tastyfreeze wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain why deflation is worse.

Cash becomes an appreciating asset. It leads people to hoard cash rather than invest in stocks and bonds, and delay purchases stagnating the economy. Japan mid 1990s to mid 2010s is a real-world example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades In the worst cases, deflation causes demand to drop causing a recession, which further depresses demand. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

So people would save more?Savings is how the wealth of a nation is built. Capital breeds investment. The more people with capital the better.

The only reason that people invest in the stock market is to maintain wealth.

What would you do if you could count on your dollars buying 2% more next year? Would you shove all your dollars in a mattress and forgo buying food so you could save a few more?

Or would you keep buying everything you do now and worry a little less about investing to maintain value?

Less dollars in the stockmarket enriching others and more dollars in savings building personal wealth is what deflation brings. The only people this is a problem for are stockbrokers.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#454

Post by yaky »

HomeDeLaPot wrote: post #302
yaky wrote: post #113

The other day, I paid cash at the local Chinese-American place, and the owner said "thank you for using cash, it helps small businesses", which took me by surprise. So I asked how much card processors charge, and she went on a bit of a rant, listing processing fees for everything from regular debit cards* charging 3-4% to rewards credit cards being around 7% to special international or world credit cards charging som…

I wish more businesses would (could?) give cash discounts. It's the answer to the convenience and rewards offered by credit cards. If I can save as much or more by paying in cash as I can by paying by card, then I have a great motivation to start carrying cash around!

Several small businesses in my city do charge 3% for using a card. So that is like a cash discount.

Many gas stations (usually ones serving trucks) have cash discounts for fuel, too.

(US, midwest)

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#455

Post by yankoff »

xadhominemx wrote: post #374
realcertify wrote: post #333

The current trend is to move from cash to electronic money controlled by the banks. Previously the money deposited to a bank account was the clients money that the bank just kept. Now it's the banks money that can be frozen by any reason and it's the client's responsibility to prove his innocence. Next step is a blockchain-based crypto, controlled only by a single structure, such as Fed. Total control directly by the…

What are you talking about? Deposits that came in via paper money are treated in exactly the same manner as those deposited electronically.

Cash transactions over $10k have to be reported to the IRS. You'd have to provide ID and TIN. If that weren't the case, criminals wouldn't have had problems with money laundering.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#456

Post by yaky »

dpkirchner wrote: post #408
yaky wrote: post #113

The other day, I paid cash at the local Chinese-American place, and the owner said "thank you for using cash, it helps small businesses", which took me by surprise. So I asked how much card processors charge, and she went on a bit of a rant, listing processing fees for everything from regular debit cards* charging 3-4% to rewards credit cards being around 7% to special international or world credit cards charging som…

This is the first I'm hearing of double digit rates -- what cards are those? I'd definitely like to avoid them.

I don't recall exactly, I believe it was some type of business cards, or cards for travel and international use.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#457

Post by kuchenbecker »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #453
kuchenbecker wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash becomes an appreciating asset. It leads people to hoard cash rather than invest in stocks and bonds, and delay purchases stagnating the economy. Japan mid 1990s to mid 2010s is a real-world example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades In the worst cases, deflation causes demand to drop causing a recession, which further depresses demand. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

So people would save more?Savings is how the wealth of a nation is built. Capital breeds investment. The more people with capital the better. The only reason that people invest in the stock market is to maintain wealth. What would you do if you could count on your dollars buying 2% more next year? Would you shove all your dollars in a mattress and forgo buying food so you could save a few more? Or would you keep buyi…

Economies are built on the movement of money not the sum of money. It's truly positive sum where the act of spending money allows someone else to spend money.

Highly suggest picking up some econ primers, as its almost universally agreed even mild deflation is destructive.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#458

Post by braunboffel »

yyyk wrote: post #362
nonrandomstring wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> einks are too expensive right now? Maybe yes. But track their falling cost and you'll see where the price point intersects with near disposable cost. European transport tickets made of cheap plasticised card only took a couple of years to incorporate RFID - that's already a long way toward low cost "intelligent cash". For a brief few weeks in the 1980s we had "phone cards" with stored, decrementable value that you…

>track their falling cost I do recall that patents/trademarks/tech are owned by E-Ink inc., and one of the biggest reason for the cost is them gouging the market? That mechanism can keep high prices for a long time.

> I do recall that patents/trademarks/tech are owned by E-Ink inc., and one of the biggest reason for the cost is them gouging the market? That mechanism can keep high prices for a long time.

recall? gouging? You mean you have data showing is not just simple volume issues?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#459

Post by PrimeMcFly »

unicornmama wrote: post #56
berkes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really really really would think that Bitcoin fills this exact need. There's a lot wrong with the cryptocurrency world and with Bitcoin specifically. So much wrong, that I'm afraid we closed the one way out of government and corporate-controlled "digital money" and all the risks that comes with. But maybe it never was a good "way out" in the first place: maybe there never was a way out at all. I keep hoping the gri…

This is preposterous. Bitcoin is more traceable, more transparent and more censorship prone than every form of currency conveyance we know of including cash, diamonds, physical gold, etc… The fact that’s 2024 and some people still believe Bitcoin enables privacy just goes to show how crypto enthusiasts are candy brained fanatics.

Bitcoin maybe not crypto in general. Monero for example is entirely private.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#460

Post by gn4d »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #102

There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion. - Cash is anonymous - Cash is an "old" or "low" technology. When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Modern cash is high technology . Look…

> Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked

lmfao what. Unless someone is committing large scale crimes involving bands, no one is tracking some small bills between private citizens, some stores, more citizens, et al.

For the vast majority of people, cash is anonymous. No advertising company or government is obtaining tracking data on your purchase of an apple and a cup of coffee with cash.

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