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Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

prospectmagazine.co.uk

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Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#441

Post by canucker2016 »

mdp2021 wrote: post #197
alfiedotwtf wrote: post #142

A few months ago, Australia’s second biggest ISP died for a few hours. Retailers tied to their network were unable to process non-cash transactions.

Months ago, in Singapore, similarly a single relatively small server farm had issues, blocking for a long time a very large number of transactions. (Some details at: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/dbs-digibank-payl... ) The news outlets in Singapore then commented: please, as these things can always happen, do not forget to bring some cash with you...

Visa Europe had an outage for a few hours in 2018. see https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/1/17418684/visa-cards-europe...

Canada's payment network had an outage for over an hour last year, 2023 Sep 23. see https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/moneris-network-outage-1.6976...

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#442

Post by darrenf »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #243
darrenf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus cash is just so much more convient and faster. There are many reasons I'm not anti-cash, but I am really struggling to think of a single example of this specific statement being true. Just acquiring cash at all means I have to take time out of my day, repeatedly, to make withdrawals. Then I have to carry it securely ( as well as the cards I need to get hold of more), which is annoying at the best of times and…

Cash is faster in situations where you tip. You don't need exact change, just cost of service + tip and you can walk away. I still love using cash in restaurants because the credit card dance adds 10 minutes waiting at an empty table. The server always drops off the check and runs, as if I'll need to think about the 43 dollar bill, getting them back is a whole thing, then waiting for them to return with my card and 3…

I tip at restaurants, pubs, hairdressers, taxis (and likely more that aren’t front of mind) where I live in the UK. It’s as quick as saying “make it ” to round it up, and done.

Cash in restaurants pisses me off because it limits my consumption to what I can afford with the cash I’m carrying. What if I fancy the most expensive main, or a really nice whisky at the end of the meal?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#443

Post by IshKebab »

Alifatisk wrote: post #343
IshKebab wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that my example is not really true is a stronger argument against you, not weaker.

I don’t see how?

I will break it down:

1. You argue cashless is annoying because you have to remember your card/phone in addition to cash.

2. I countered that you could equally say that cash is bad because I have to remember cash in addition to my card/phone. Which makes them at worst equal. You just have to remember whichever one is accepted.

3. Except - as I stated and you highlighted - that is not really the case. Almost everywhere accepts card - more than accept cash, so not only is cashless equal to cash, it is better.

(From a "having to remember things" point of view anyway.)

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#444

Post by madsbuch »

fsckboy wrote: post #428
madsbuch wrote: post #11

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

how do cashless transactions require social trust? you trust your bank, I trust my bank, and we don't have to trust each other at all. if you can't trust your bank, you are SOL.

You trust that your spending habits are not shared with malicious actors. You trust that the government does use your data maliciously. You trust there is a fair dispute process, etc.

There are plenty of countries where I would not dare to register certain spends on my card or where the risk of using cards would be considered high.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#445

Post by vlovich123 »

berkes wrote: post #419
vlovich123 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I also know quite a lot of people who lost a lot of money in the 2018 banking crisis. So I highly doubt your really don't personally know a single person who lost money this way. That’s like saying I know people who lost money due to Bitcoin volatility due to massive crashes. Losing money in the 2018 banking crisis was a result of your property value falling and thus your mortgage was underwater, not because mo…

> not because money in the bank itself disappeared in some way. It did in many European banks.

I can’t find any story that customers lost their deposits. Europe like the US has insurance similar to FDIC so that shouldn’t happen. Any news stories to corroborate your claim?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#446

Post by CraigJPerry »

ttoinou wrote: post #433
CraigJPerry wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bank notes are not re-issued 1:1 with destroyed notes. >> being hard to measure doesn't mean it doesn't exist No in this context it does. Either you can measure the increase purchasing power or you can’t. And if you can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist in this specific case.

Most economics consequences will never be measured ever

I think we’d be getting into something akin to “homeopathic” monetary theory with that line of reasoning…!

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#447

Post by rjblackman »

keiferski wrote: post #41

Obligatory Neuromancer (1984) reference: His total assets were quickly converted to New Yen, a fat sheaf of the old paper currency that circulated endlessly through the closed circuit of the world's black markets like the seashells of the Trobriand islanders. It was difficult to transact legitimate business with cash in the Sprawl; in Japan, it was already illegal. I am fairly convinced that using cash will slowly be…

demand for bitcoin will keep climbing.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#448

Post by santoshalper »

happytiger wrote: post #148

Not using cash means someone gets a cut of a processing fee. Every time, with almost no exceptions. I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re generally paying 3-4 percent of every transaction now, as that’s pretty standard for debit cards on businesses, and it doesn’t matter if it’s charged to the card holder or the…

It definitely matters who it is charged to. In almost all cases, it's just rolled into the overall price of the item, which means you pay it whether you use cash or not. It would be very interesting to see if prices for card were 3% higher across the board, if people would still use them as much. I honestly have no idea.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#449

Post by santoshalper »

atmartins wrote: post #375
gizmo wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s such a misrepresentation. The credit card fees exist because customers get benefits like delivery insurance, return insurance, holiday insurance, cashback, free credit, etc. If you just want to transfer bits you can do that for next to no fees (in Europe, where digital payments without consumer protections are common).

Cash back? Attention is finite and I don't want a payment processor forcing me to pay a fee so I can turn around and try and earn it back. How about lower the fee and let me keep that 1%?? Then I can earn interest on it for the month, not them. And then I don't have to read additional terms and conditions, use it or lose it, book travel through their marked up garbage store, etc. It's insane to me that you'd defend c…

Mine is just literal cash I can apply to the balance on my card. Obviously the fact that cash back exists means that the card companies are making even more money on the fees. However, since most stores charge an identical amount whether you use CC or cash, everyone is collectively paying it and you might as well get the cash/miles/rewards back.

The FCBA coverage, on the other hand, has some real value. That said, even though I have used it a few times, I doubt it has saved me as much as I've spent in CC fees.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#450

Post by nonrandomstring »

jijijijij wrote: post #390
nonrandomstring wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some scenarios I hope you see as obvious: - you take out cash from an ATM. The machine is loaded with sequential or logged order of SN that can be matched to withdrawals and times. - you take that cash immediately to a vending machine or supermarket auto-checkout that takes notes. The machine scans all notes it ingests and can match them to timings and purchase details. - Even a small shop might have a camera at the…

You are describing the possible collection of circumstantial evidence, not systemic surveillance inherent to cash. Completely different thing than the transaction logs of electronic money transfers. There is a reason why governments don't want large cash transactions. It enables illegal sales, tax evasion and money laundering. Dude/ette, if you think the police can track a single 20€ bill that precisely, they wouldn'…

Sorry I missed this reply and hope you still see mine.

> You are telling a fatalist narrative which only helps the abandonment of cash, especially for small, daily transactions, which matter most for privacy.

I hope that's not true and this is the only point I dispute.

Yes cash can be tracked, down to a single note, but it's extremely hard and expensive, as most of us here with a little more knowledge understand. No big conspiracies, just a sobering appraisal of the state of the art. What that knowledge does is debunk the political lie that digital cash is the only way to fight crime and money laundering etc.

Now, we were going to do a Cybershow episode on drug dealers who accept Google and Apple pay, but shelved it because frankly I'm out of my depth journalistically and can't protect sources or navigate the risks of side effects. But it happens, and those companies collude (because it must be bloody obvious from the data).

Meanwhile I think the front line is dispelling the "convenience myth". Convenience is such a dirty and dishonest word that most-times stands in for "something that makes me feel good". In reality I can pay cash for a round of drinks and tip the barmaid before my mates have got their phones out their pockets.

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