Crypto is an electronic replacement for cash that is ideally not dependent on centralized entities incentivized by processing fees (still in progress of course, but we're rapidly getting there!).
Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
411–420 of 498 posts
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure you're aware of this - though others may not be: another trick US banks use is gouging you on exchange rates. My bank was charging something like a 0.5% fee visible fee and then an invisible fee several times that in exchange rate gouging. I found trying to use US banks abroad an absolutely painful experience, to the point I swapped my banking abroad which is itself a huge PITA thanks to FATCA and other stuf…
Banks all over the world make healthy margins on cross-border transactions involving a currency cross. It is not unique to American banks at all.
My EU bank charges less than 1% currency exchange fee. US banks have charged me 5-8%. It's not the same.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not. Visa and Mastercard collected $138 billion in service fees in 2021. They are among the most profitable companies in the world. You’re pretending that cash handling is a binary. You need a blend. For example, after extensive testing we are not going to send wire transfers exclusively in gold bricks. Though the loss weighs heavy on me. But you should be very careful in eliminating cash. I assume cash handling…
The fact that you immediately assume that something doesn't exist because you don't encounter it is insanely presumptuous of you. The entire reason why small businesses moved away from cash is because its cheaper even taking into account fees. Food trucks, popups, small merchant kiosks. Not needing to take cash means far less overhead. You're more than welcome to argue the benefits of cash transactions and in most ca…
And danger to employees! My partner used to work as a waitress, and was always very nervous when she had to go home with a days revenue when she was the last to leave.
Electronic payments are much safer, no physical cash someone can steal.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
I too know far more people who lost Bitcoin due to mistakes, or negligence or such. But I also know quite a lot of people who lost a lot of money in the 2018 banking crisis. So I highly doubt your really don't personally know a single person who lost money this way.
How did people lose money in the 2018 banking crisis? My understanding is that bank deposits were fully insured in that crisis--whether or not they exceeded FDIC insurance limits.
> FDIC insurance limits
Not everyone lives in the US. The US is not the world, but the 2018 crisis was worldwide.
Here's two (edit: three) of several use-cases in which friends and people I know, in a western European country, lost money.
A couple who signed the contracts of a house suddenly couldn't access their savings on (DSB, some local bank), a bank that went bankrupt. Eventhough they eventually got their money, after nearly a year, they lost the contract, had to pay big fines (some of which they got back after long legal battles).
A friend with a lot of money, way over €100k, in a savings many from the sale of a company meant for his early pension, lost everything above that guaranteed €100k when his bank (IceSave) failed. He still has a royal pension (I'd call him rich). But he no longer had access to his dream of a yacht and villa in the meditereanean. While you may think "I don't care of some rich guy lost money", and while I can understand that thought, he did lose money. He lost more than I'll probably end up with in my pension.
A couple in my parent's street had to sell their house because of their bad mortgage. It probably was bad to begin with, but suddenly that mattered. They had to sell that house for far less than they would've gotten without the enforcement - I know the guy who scooped it up in the auction and know how much higher he sold it a year later without any significant improvements made. What's more, the couple then had to move (costly) and rent (under pressure, so not much room to say "no" to too expensive or bad places) for way too much.
My dad lost nearly his entire "investment mortgage", which was for his pension too. He is doing fine and it was a mortgage on only a small part of the house, but the portfolio went almost worthless within months.
And so on. There are quite some stories of people who lost a lot.
Sure, that's different from "I lost my bank-card, now my whole account is gone", or "I forgot my PIN and cannot ever access my pension ever again".
But to say that no-one ever lost any money in the "traditional banking system" due to neglect or poor management is simply not true. It's simply on a different scale - but the outcome is on a very personal scale nontheless.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
Haha, Americans with their 2-4% transaction tax, it’s so funny. No seriously, when I first moved to the Netherlands I was wondering what kind of backwards country wouldn’t let me use a credit card at the grocery store. And that’s when I learned about how crazy it is that credit cards and even American debit cards have such needlessly high transaction fees.
You get 95% of it back in the form of rewards, so it's not really a tax at all.
In exchange for signing away usage of your personal data/legally agreeing to participate in ad targeting.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
Traveling from Norway 10-15 years ago Denmark was fairly backwards when it came to electronic payments.
10-15 years is also an insanely large amount of time when it comes to digitalisation. 15 years ago IE6 received its final stable release, but it would still go on to be supported for another 8 years. That’s also the same year Chrome was released, but it would take another 4 years before it overtook IE in market share. I used cash semi regularly when I moved to Denmark nearly 10 years ago. I haven’t touched Danish cur…
Put it other way 10 years ago we had Python 3.4, Rust and Windows 8.1 :) What I'm saying is Norway at the time was pretty much where Denmark is now. Even 20 years ago you could go by pretty much cashless except one way bus tickets in certain cities. That said I doubt Denmark has any lower level of social trust than Norway so it's unlikely the cause. As the locals then explained credit card transaction fees were held at unsustainable levels and Denmark lacked its own national clearance network.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
There were already costs. There were always costs and risks associated with cash handling: armored trucks doing cash collection, risks of money in tills being lost. If it really were a lot cheaper you wouldn’t see businesses clamouring to go cashless. That’s not to say I think cash should go the way of the dodo, but I don’t think there’s that much difference paying g4s to collect your money vs Mastercard. IMO the ben…
I work in a bank and cash handling is a major headache in terms of internal control, logistics, reconciliation and AML. It's a large extra cost. It is much cheaper for the bank and customers to use cards, but where I live the banks own a payment network that does not involve visa and mastercard so the cost is much lower and there is no rent seeking so card use have no fees. We also have an app for sending "cash" for…
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Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not. Visa and Mastercard collected $138 billion in service fees in 2021. They are among the most profitable companies in the world. You’re pretending that cash handling is a binary. You need a blend. For example, after extensive testing we are not going to send wire transfers exclusively in gold bricks. Though the loss weighs heavy on me. But you should be very careful in eliminating cash. I assume cash handling…
>Cash handling fees are made up by banks who want more transaction fees. That’s not a real thing. I have yet to be charged a cash fee by any of the banks I use. That's because you presumably have a consumer account. If you had a business account and were depositing thousands in 20 bills they're probably going to charge you fees.
Remember when banks made their money by taking in as many deposits as possible, and then lending that money out?
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
I too know far more people who lost Bitcoin due to mistakes, or negligence or such. But I also know quite a lot of people who lost a lot of money in the 2018 banking crisis. So I highly doubt your really don't personally know a single person who lost money this way.
> But I also know quite a lot of people who lost a lot of money in the 2018 banking crisis. So I highly doubt your really don't personally know a single person who lost money this way. That’s like saying I know people who lost money due to Bitcoin volatility due to massive crashes. Losing money in the 2018 banking crisis was a result of your property value falling and thus your mortgage was underwater, not because mo…
> not because money in the bank itself disappeared in some way.
It did in many European banks.
Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Square will do you 1.75%, no contract, no fees Where? A quick search on their website shows 2.6%: https://squareup.com/us/en/pricing#rates
Everywhere, apparently, other than the US. You should fix your banking system.
someone has to pay for our big rewards program!!! :)
often as high as 2-2.5%