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Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

prospectmagazine.co.uk

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Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#371

Post by StopTheTechies »

gizmo wrote: post #318
SoftTalker wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there are costs to handling cash. And they are vastly higher than the cost of handling bits. A 3% fee to write some bits to a database is insane. A 3% fee to pay all the people who need to handle the currency in a cash transaction is probably not covering costs.

That’s such a misrepresentation. The credit card fees exist because customers get benefits like delivery insurance, return insurance, holiday insurance, cashback, free credit, etc. If you just want to transfer bits you can do that for next to no fees (in Europe, where digital payments without consumer protections are common).

Debit cards have the same processing fees, the credit cards are a complete red herring. If anything credit cards are much more evil than just charging the processing fee.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#372

Post by mab122 »

noodlesUK wrote: post #152
happytiger wrote: post #148

Not using cash means someone gets a cut of a processing fee. Every time, with almost no exceptions. I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re generally paying 3-4 percent of every transaction now, as that’s pretty standard for debit cards on businesses, and it doesn’t matter if it’s charged to the card holder or the…

There were already costs. There were always costs and risks associated with cash handling: armored trucks doing cash collection, risks of money in tills being lost. If it really were a lot cheaper you wouldn’t see businesses clamouring to go cashless. That’s not to say I think cash should go the way of the dodo, but I don’t think there’s that much difference paying g4s to collect your money vs Mastercard. IMO the ben…

I would argue that cash maybe a little better than cashless because fees are tied to physical problem of moving cash around where as cashless fees are just one board meeting from changing ten fold.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#373

Post by xadhominemx »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #246
happytiger wrote: post #148

Not using cash means someone gets a cut of a processing fee. Every time, with almost no exceptions. I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re generally paying 3-4 percent of every transaction now, as that’s pretty standard for debit cards on businesses, and it doesn’t matter if it’s charged to the card holder or the…

Haha, Americans with their 2-4% transaction tax, it’s so funny. No seriously, when I first moved to the Netherlands I was wondering what kind of backwards country wouldn’t let me use a credit card at the grocery store. And that’s when I learned about how crazy it is that credit cards and even American debit cards have such needlessly high transaction fees.

You get 95% of it back in the form of rewards, so it's not really a tax at all.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#374

Post by xadhominemx »

realcertify wrote: post #333

The current trend is to move from cash to electronic money controlled by the banks. Previously the money deposited to a bank account was the clients money that the bank just kept. Now it's the banks money that can be frozen by any reason and it's the client's responsibility to prove his innocence. Next step is a blockchain-based crypto, controlled only by a single structure, such as Fed. Total control directly by the…

What are you talking about? Deposits that came in via paper money are treated in exactly the same manner as those deposited electronically.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#375

Post by atmartins »

gizmo wrote: post #318
SoftTalker wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there are costs to handling cash. And they are vastly higher than the cost of handling bits. A 3% fee to write some bits to a database is insane. A 3% fee to pay all the people who need to handle the currency in a cash transaction is probably not covering costs.

That’s such a misrepresentation. The credit card fees exist because customers get benefits like delivery insurance, return insurance, holiday insurance, cashback, free credit, etc. If you just want to transfer bits you can do that for next to no fees (in Europe, where digital payments without consumer protections are common).

Cash back? Attention is finite and I don't want a payment processor forcing me to pay a fee so I can turn around and try and earn it back. How about lower the fee and let me keep that 1%?? Then I can earn interest on it for the month, not them. And then I don't have to read additional terms and conditions, use it or lose it, book travel through their marked up garbage store, etc. It's insane to me that you'd defend cash back as some kind of advantage to consumers when it's anything but. It's a crappy product that you can choose to avoid but I want the up front transaction fee reduced by the same amount.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#376

Post by xadhominemx »

_xivi wrote: post #98

I think the ongoing banking crisis in Lebanon (similarly in Egypt and maybe elsewhere too) where there are restrictions on people's access to their deposits or making international transactions should be on everyone's mind when talking about eliminating cash. The downside of going cashless aren't hypothetical or as far-fetched as people think. The whole society can be put on hold overnight. We can see this happening…

What difference does the elimination of paper money at POS make to ability to access electronic deposits? Unless you are saying people should not bank at all and keep cash under the mattress?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#377

Post by xadhominemx »

baq wrote: post #78
ajmurmann wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't the phone payments backed by credit cards or do they by preloaded vouchers?

Bank accounts directly I’d assume. Why add another layer of indirection?

It varies by country but a lot of them are just virtual debit and credit cards because the payments run over the card network rails.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#378

Post by xadhominemx »

avianlyric wrote: post #27
ghaff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use very little cash in MA. But checks are still pretty much the default for a lot of people doing various services for me. I can just leave a check for someone like my housekeeper. I could presumably make arrangements to pay in a different form (including cash) but why bother? And, in many cases, it's my bank actually "writing" the check and delivering it. I'd change if it became an aberration or weird to do but i…

The lack of fast free digital money transfer infrastructure in the U.S. is something that seems crazy to anyone in the EU. Every EU country (and the UK) has had fast free digital bank transfers for decades now. Here in the UK we pay all “casual” services like cleaners, dog walkers etc via a simple, quick bank transfer. It’s great, I don’t need to keep cash, and person providing the services has the money in their acc…

We have free digital money transfer in the United States. Venmo, Zelle, PayPal, Cash App, etc. I don't know why you'd believe otherwise.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#379

Post by xadhominemx »

Alifatisk wrote: post #257
Xplune13 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a new one. Genuine question, why do you prefer using cash instead of using a phone or card?

Sometimes I don’t want to walk around with my valuables on me, I just bring a small sum enough to satisfy my groceries. I do this especially when it’s dark outside and I have to go out to shop, this way, I don’t lose anything significant if I get robbed. Another good reason is that some shops have to pay a fee for being able to accept digital transactions, for some shops, the fee is quite a lot. So paying with cash i…

You don't like to bring your valuables with you, so you bring cash instead of a PIN-protected debit card?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#380

Post by dr_dshiv »

xadhominemx wrote: post #373
dr_dshiv wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, Americans with their 2-4% transaction tax, it’s so funny. No seriously, when I first moved to the Netherlands I was wondering what kind of backwards country wouldn’t let me use a credit card at the grocery store. And that’s when I learned about how crazy it is that credit cards and even American debit cards have such needlessly high transaction fees.

You get 95% of it back in the form of rewards, so it's not really a tax at all.

It seems kind of like a scam, though, credit card rewards. I don’t know enough about it, I generally don’t like participating in those sorts of things. Do you have a ref on the 95%?
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