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Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

prospectmagazine.co.uk

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Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#191

Post by nonrandomstring »

Fredkin wrote: post #183
nonrandomstring wrote: post #102

There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion. - Cash is anonymous - Cash is an "old" or "low" technology. When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Modern cash is high technology . Look…

> Smart people at the top... Who exactly? Where are these people in power defending physical cash or recommending an alternative monetary medium resilient to grid failure?

You know that's the best question anyone has asked me on HN.

I simply said "smart people at the top". I didn't say there were any.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#192

Post by timruffles »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #174
mypastself wrote: post #6

> [On] 23rd August 1994, the chaotic music duo and performance artists Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty burned £1m of notes behind a boathouse on the Scottish island of Jura. They are not alone in attempting to reduce money’s power… They literally increased the purchasing power of each remaining pound by doing so.

This is just rich people flexing under the BS guise of sticking it to the man.

Not so - it was the majority of their music industry earnings, and they are apparently quite haunted by it to this day!

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#193

Post by dazc »

yaky wrote: post #65
madsbuch wrote: post #11

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

In the US, we have $100 and $50 bills officially in circulation, but many places will refuse to take them as payment, even though they will take smaller denominations. I believe this is usually described as avoiding counterfeit money and/or not keeping more than a certain amount of cash in the register.

In the UK we have £50 notes which are notoriously difficult to use as cash since there are many counterfeits in circulation and it's hard to differentiate between genuine and fake. We also have notes issued by Scottish banks which are legal tender throughout the UK but good luck finding a retailer outside of Scotland willing to accept them.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#194

Post by happytiger »

moooo99 wrote: post #167
happytiger wrote: post #148

Not using cash means someone gets a cut of a processing fee. Every time, with almost no exceptions. I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re generally paying 3-4 percent of every transaction now, as that’s pretty standard for debit cards on businesses, and it doesn’t matter if it’s charged to the card holder or the…

> I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re pretending as if there weren’t any costs associated with handling cash. There’s almost always a handling fee if you want to put the cash into an account, which you will need to do if you want to pay people that are somewhere else than you are. If you have larger quantities…

I’m not. Visa and Mastercard collected $138 billion in service fees in 2021. They are among the most profitable companies in the world. You’re pretending that cash handling is a binary. You need a blend. For example, after extensive testing we are not going to send wire transfers exclusively in gold bricks. Though the loss weighs heavy on me.

But you should be very careful in eliminating cash.

I assume cash handling fees are made up by banks who want more transaction fees. That’s not a real thing in my experience. I many times have gotten a discount for cash. I have not shopped a few places because they don’t accept cash. But I have yet to be charged a cash fee by any of the banks I use.

And they have insane surveillance data on their customers from doing so. Data that is used for all kinds of unintended purposes.

Cash is also one of the last strongholds left to maintain anonymity and keep purchasing information truly private without handing heaps of data to the corporations that make a buck off your receipts—or worse, to hackers, in the case of a data breach.

To say nothing of the unbanked… which is a massive issue.

If that’s the future you want, we don’t see eye-to-eye. You are giving up a LOT more than you realize.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#195

Post by ascorbic »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #174
mypastself wrote: post #6

> [On] 23rd August 1994, the chaotic music duo and performance artists Bill Drummond and Jimmy Cauty burned £1m of notes behind a boathouse on the Scottish island of Jura. They are not alone in attempting to reduce money’s power… They literally increased the purchasing power of each remaining pound by doing so.

This is just rich people flexing under the BS guise of sticking it to the man.

It was their entire remaining royalty earnings. They also deleted their back catalogue so they couldn't earn any more. I remember having to buy Japanese imports when I wanted CD copies of the White Room and Chill Out as a teenager. It was only a couple of years ago when they finally reissued any of their work.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#196

Post by reisse »

okasaki wrote: post #68
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently in China which is pretty much fully cashless and I fucking hate it. Get Alipay. Link your credit card. Put in a pin, but no not that pin because it has two consecutive numbers. Pick a different pin. Forget it by the time you need to pay and reset your pin. Go to the grocery store and have to download a new app to pay, they can’t take Alipay even though it’s the same parent company. Oh the machine didn’t wor…

Okay, but somehow the rest of the billion people manage it?

It's much easier if you have Chinese ID or at least vefified Weixin (WeChat) account. AliPay with linked credit card is a kludge for tourists. It works, but only as good as you expect from a kludge. Like I was able to pay pretty much everywhere with AliPay in Beijing, but a few vending machines stubbornly refused to accept it.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#197

Post by mdp2021 »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #142

A few months ago, Australia’s second biggest ISP died for a few hours. Retailers tied to their network were unable to process non-cash transactions.

Months ago, in Singapore, similarly a single relatively small server farm had issues, blocking for a long time a very large number of transactions.

(Some details at: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/dbs-digibank-payl... )

The news outlets in Singapore then commented: please, as these things can always happen, do not forget to bring some cash with you...

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#198

Post by thaumasiotes »

Exuma wrote: post #131
venusenvy47 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it raise the value of the currency if the central bank didn't know this stash was destroyed? It seems like this pile of cash would still be considered to be "in circulation" until the central bank declared it to not be.

A better question is do I make everyone else’s dollar worth more for the duration that I hold and don’t spend my dollars

Do you make everyone else's stock worth more for the duration that you hold your shares without selling them?

Rephrasing that question, if you were holding a bunch of shares of stock, and you sell them, will that lower the price of that stock?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#199

Post by dazc »

yaky wrote: post #113

The other day, I paid cash at the local Chinese-American place, and the owner said "thank you for using cash, it helps small businesses", which took me by surprise. So I asked how much card processors charge, and she went on a bit of a rant, listing processing fees for everything from regular debit cards* charging 3-4% to rewards credit cards being around 7% to special international or world credit cards charging som…

We have some small traders in the UK who insist on a minimum spend for accepting cards because of the fees levied. It doesn't really make any business sense although I appreciate the sentiment behind it.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#200

Post by gruez »

happytiger wrote: post #194
moooo99 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper. You’re pretending as if there weren’t any costs associated with handling cash. There’s almost always a handling fee if you want to put the cash into an account, which you will need to do if you want to pay people that are somewhere else than you are. If you have larger quantities…

I’m not. Visa and Mastercard collected $138 billion in service fees in 2021. They are among the most profitable companies in the world. You’re pretending that cash handling is a binary. You need a blend. For example, after extensive testing we are not going to send wire transfers exclusively in gold bricks. Though the loss weighs heavy on me. But you should be very careful in eliminating cash. I assume cash handling…

>Cash handling fees are made up by banks who want more transaction fees. That’s not a real thing. I have yet to be charged a cash fee by any of the banks I use.

That's because you presumably have a consumer account. If you had a business account and were depositing thousands in 20 bills they're probably going to charge you fees.

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