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Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

prospectmagazine.co.uk

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Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#141

Post by grobbyy »

coldtea wrote: post #105
nonrandomstring wrote: post #102

There are two fallacies I frequently feel the need to debunk in this discussion. - Cash is anonymous - Cash is an "old" or "low" technology. When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Modern cash is high technology . Look…

> When a serious crime is committed you might be surprised how much the police can do to trace cash. Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked, and frequently your face is captured by cameras in stores, ATMs and vending machines. Which is neither here, not there. Cash is effectively anonymous for 99% of uses that don't involve "major crime". Your buying something is not logged anywhere, for example.

You fell for a simple fallecy. The line isn't that cash is used in a major crime. It's that someone in power wants someone in prison.

1. You might not be involved in a major crime but you might be a suspect. Lots of innocent suspects get convicted.

2. You might be a whistleblower. Lots of whistleblowers get framed.

Etc.

"If I've done nothing wrong I have nothing to hide" didn't work out well for Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.

A lot of the reason many of us want privacy preserved is to prevent a similar path here. Totalitarian governments don't always pop up overnight on a revolution; they often creep up on you.

The creeping process is also often:

1. We'll track X with major checks on privacy; it will only be used for terrorism and child abuse investigations and held in a secure vault

2. We're just doing a better job of sharing / using data we already collect

Neither off those is objectionable, but together, you end up in a distopia.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#143

Post by thread_id »

WHAAAAATTTTT!!!!!

“…thousands were queuing in Nairobi to have their eyeballs scanned as part of the “Worldcoin” project, founded by OpenAI chief Sam Altman. In exchange for handing over their biometric data, some 350,000 Kenyans each received 25 free crypto tokens, worth approximately $50. Those tokens were transferred directly via Kenya’s main mobile payments app, M-Pesa.”

Actually that doesn’t sound so forward thinking when you consider that the UN has been doing since 2016:

“In 2016, the UN World Food Programme trialled a system that issued relief payments through the use of biometrics. Refugees were able to buy items from the supermarket using their biometric data as a credential: all they needed to do was scan their iris to pay for an item. The idea was to improve convenience and prevent fraud. Since that trial, the World Food Programme’s Building Blocks initiative has become the world’s largest humanitarian use of blockchain technology.”

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#144

Post by kredd »

xenator wrote: post #117
madsbuch wrote: post #11

I Denmark we are removing the 1000kr bill as of May 2025. from then on the highest bill. is 500kr which is roughly equal to 80 usd. Denmark Is the most cashless society I have yet experiences (and I have been traveling a fair bit). This comes with pros and cons. and I think the reason why it works is because of an incredibly high social trust.

I have visited Denmark and this is definitely last country I want to live. Just simple the worst. I've lived and visited about 40-50 countries in my life, maybe more, it is hard to count. For me Denmark is best example of modern slavery with brainwashed slaves. I was born in USSR and current Denmark looks very similar. The values of society are too far from what I respect. I believe if this work in Denmark all other…

It’s literally the first time I’ve heard anyone saying this about Denmark. I’ve been to a ton of places, including Denmark, and can’t even understand why would you have such opinion. Care to explain?

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#145

Post by atq2119 »

rhdunn wrote: post #73
Xplune13 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a new one. Genuine question, why do you prefer using cash instead of using a phone or card?

Cash is useful in cases where your phone/card isn't working. E.g. if your phone has run out of battery, you are in a location that has a poor signal, your account has been locked due to a suspicious/unusual transaction (even if legitimate), etc. You don't need it all the time, just for emergencies.

Systems you want to use in an emergency have a tendency to start failing when you don't exercise them regularly. That's my primary reason for using cash. Privacy is the second. The tactile sense for how much money I spend is the third.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#146

Post by berkes »

ajmurmann wrote: post #67
unicornmama wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is preposterous. Bitcoin is more traceable, more transparent and more censorship prone than every form of currency conveyance we know of including cash, diamonds, physical gold, etc… The fact that’s 2024 and some people still believe Bitcoin enables privacy just goes to show how crypto enthusiasts are candy brained fanatics.

To add to this, I also anecdotally know many more people who lost Bitcoin due to bad key management or keeping their Bitcoin in a platform that failed instead of cold storage. I don't personally know a single person whose money disappeared from their bank account for no reason.

I too know far more people who lost Bitcoin due to mistakes, or negligence or such.

But I also know quite a lot of people who lost a lot of money in the 2018 banking crisis. So I highly doubt your really don't personally know a single person who lost money this way.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#147

Post by grobbyy »

34679 wrote: post #135
hasty_pudding wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Serial numbers in and out of ATMs and shops are tracked Is this true? When I buy something from my local gas station is there a system in place tracking every serial number exchanged on the cash?

Not in the US. There are no laws requiring businesses to do so. Why would employers spend the resources required for such a thing?

Because it's basically no resources. If they're not doing it now, they'll be doing it in a few years, and if not banned, selling the data.

It's literally adding a 50 cent camera to a cash register.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#148

Post by happytiger »

Not using cash means someone gets a cut of a processing fee. Every time, with almost no exceptions.

I’m not down to have rent seeking companies taking a slice of my hard earned money just so I don’t have to manage a few pieces of paper.

You’re generally paying 3-4 percent of every transaction now, as that’s pretty standard for debit cards on businesses, and it doesn’t matter if it’s charged to the card holder or the business, the consumer ultimately pays for it in higher prices. Heck, people pay transaction fees on payments they make the to government because the government won’t take cash.

Do we really need to make not paying invisible fees in everything illegal? Seems crazy.

Re: Physical cash is dying–and you don't need to be a conspiracist to worry

#150

Post by Yujf »

coldtea wrote: post #134
ACS_Solver wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Sweden, a strong contender for the most cashless country, and I don't know what the banknotes look like. They were changed some 5 or 6 years ago and I haven't paid with or even withdrawn cash since then. For illustration, cash is generally not accepted outside of grocery stores and some chains. For a typical restaurant, coffee shop or takeaway there's very little chance they take cash. Street vendors may take…

>I 'm also very concerned about privacy, I'm that sort of HN person - never had a Facebook account, run self-hosted email for 20 years, use Signal for messaging as much as I can, etc. But I don't think cash is a good solution to privacy. I'd rather see laws and (better) cryptocurrencies as the privacy toolkit. We wont see those. Instead we'll see more enchroachment of privacy - because cash was actually the solution:…

The fees of cash are considerable for many businesses. At least where I live returning money to the bank is not free.
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