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Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

torrentfreak.com

11–20 of 104 posts

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#11
post #9

I've often thought that if you really wanted to pirate something, just start an S-corp for ~$200 and put your cable account in its name. If you get sued, tell them to litigate until they're blue, the company is going under.

That would likely be a case where a corporation would not protect you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil

What if the business's purpose is to provide an open suburban hotspot?

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#13
post #4

I believe this is similar reasoning to why a lot of states have made red light cameras and speed cameras illegal. The owner of the car is not necessarily the person who was driving at the time, and it was the driver (not the car) who broke the law.

Here in New Jersey, they've arrived at a compromise. The person in whose name the car is registered is responsible for the fine. But it's only a fine, with no points on your record.

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#14

Wasn't this ruled several times already in other trials? How many times does this have to be proven in Court before the other judges start throwing away such cases?

This is how the judicial system works in the USA.

It's a hierarchy, from the district courts to the circuit courts on up to the Supreme Court. Basically, decisions made at one level may be binding on that court and its "descendents", but that's as far as it goes. If you want a decision to reach nation-wide, it's got to be handed down by the Supreme Court.

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#15

Wasn't this ruled several times already in other trials? How many times does this have to be proven in Court before the other judges start throwing away such cases?

This is how the judicial system works in the USA. It's a hierarchy, from the district courts to the circuit courts on up to the Supreme Court. Basically, decisions made at one level may be binding on that court and its "descendents", but that's as far as it goes. If you want a decision to reach nation-wide, it's got to be handed down by the Supreme Court.

On top of that, this is a decision by a magistrate, which is one step below a District Court judge, so it can be appealed to the District Court, then to an Appeals Court, then the Supreme Court. A magistrate's opinion, unfortunately, has no binding effect at all (on anything other than this case).

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would likely be a case where a corporation would not protect you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil

What if the business's purpose is to provide an open suburban hotspot?

You're trying to convince a human judge, not a computer program.

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#17
While I understand that today there are potential problems, it seems to me that a person ought to be responsible with what's done with his property. If he lets someone use his gun, he's got some degree of responsibility, and if he lets someone use his communication facilities, he's assuming some as well.

Today this is difficult, since the average person doesn't have a clue how to set up a secure network. But this is a usability problem more than anything, and if our laws demanded that this be do-able even by somebody's mom, then I think manufacturers would address that usability problem.

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#18

Wasn't this ruled several times already in other trials? How many times does this have to be proven in Court before the other judges start throwing away such cases?

This is how the judicial system works in the USA. It's a hierarchy, from the district courts to the circuit courts on up to the Supreme Court. Basically, decisions made at one level may be binding on that court and its "descendents", but that's as far as it goes. If you want a decision to reach nation-wide, it's got to be handed down by the Supreme Court.

And this ruling only affects the NY District.

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#19

While I understand that today there are potential problems, it seems to me that a person ought to be responsible with what's done with his property. If he lets someone use his gun, he's got some degree of responsibility, and if he lets someone use his communication facilities, he's assuming some as well. Today this is difficult, since the average person doesn't have a clue how to set up a secure network. But this is…

So is an Internet Cafe responsible for what all its patrons do? Is Verizon responsible for everyone who buys bandwidth from them?

Re: Judge: An IP-Address Doesn’t Identify a Person (or BitTorrent Pirate)

#20

While I understand that today there are potential problems, it seems to me that a person ought to be responsible with what's done with his property. If he lets someone use his gun, he's got some degree of responsibility, and if he lets someone use his communication facilities, he's assuming some as well. Today this is difficult, since the average person doesn't have a clue how to set up a secure network. But this is…

Well now, it depends. If I let someone use something of mine that is licensed and restricted by the government because of the potential for misuse, such as a gun or prescription medication, then I am responsible inasmuch as I helped them circumvent government licensing.

If I lend someone an easily obtainable item such as a pencil sharpener or a cat, and they commit a crime using it, I don't see how I'm responsible.

The question is which of those categories Internet access falls into.

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