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Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

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Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#331
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay your employees more, or be taxed near 100% on the excess gains?

But why? If someone is creating millions of dollars worth of goods or services what moral justification is there for it to be confiscated, particularly at your arbitrary level?

The goal wouldn't be confiscation. It would be to incentivize behavior to avoid confiscation. Charge less rent to mine minerals. Spread equity in business more broadly.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#332
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"permits the existence of Jeff Bezos" - your mind on capitalism. What things of importance has Bezos done? End world hunger? Or are we celebrating the death of local stores and malls? What about a society that prevents kids from starving instead of making bombs and satellites for world wars?

Bezos' AWS made cloud computing viable, leading to the last two decades of economic growth without per capita energy consumption (due to datacenter energy efficiency). Bezos' Amazon lowers the cost and availability of goods of all kinds drastically, enriching everyone (and especially the poorer among us). The State makes bombs and drops bombs, not Bezos. Bezos deploys capital in ways which have proved to fill market…

AWS would not be possible without the contribution of hundreds of thousands of people and projects from the inception of the internet. It really is just a software on some redundant servers running open source software... it's not that incredible.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just have a really large number of reasonably well to do actors deciding how to allocate capital. After all, wisdom of the crowds and all that!

I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. It seems impossible to perfectly allocate capital, of course there will be stupid and actively harmful allocations. But the government does both of those things too. So yes it is legitimately good to have a really large number of actors allocating capital, to in ADDITION to the government.

> I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Kind of.

If the premise that government + a few rich people is a better way to spend $ (e.g. our current system !) then how about we also try government + spreading $ around so a lot of people are well off and can "allocate capital".

The fact is a rising tide lifts all boats.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#334

The ability to create extreme wealth in a democratic capitalist society is an indicator of the economic freedom. It is the wealth that gives us the freedom to invest in new knowledge creation to solve problems. The more wealth the more opportunities, especially when they are in the hands of someone who have proven again and again their ability to create value to society. Elon Musk is of course the obvious example but…

To generalize this idea further, it seems to me that at some point, concentration of wealth compromises the freedom of markets — whether by political influence or legal means. And that’s what needs to be focused on.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, people don't know this. The degree of economic and historical naiveté has really skyrocketed in recent decades. "Let's just try a planned society one more time , THIS time will be different, look how nice and kind we are!" is a perfectly reasonable statement to many educated people today. It's really an indictment of the education system.

You are mocking people using a false dichotomy. Complaining that some individuals shouldn't be able to control trillion in wealth don't imply a push for centrally planned economies.

… yes it does?

It implies a central authority that has opinions on the wealth of private citizens (inappropriate) that also has the ability to act on it (dangerous) and that goes ahead and implements its utopian visions (has never not ended in utter catastrophe).

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so people who are good at managing their money are ... drum roll, please ... better at managing their money. This is a tautology. The question is not whether rich people are better at running their own finances, it is whether they are the best people to be making resource allocation decisions. In US capitalism, the argument for coupling the two normally consists of "well, they want to make money, so they will do…

> This is just so absurd that it's really not worth deconstructing. Do you believe Bezos got rich by not giving people what they wanted?

Also, your question sort of implicitly requires ignoring all the attempts to do "something like what Bezos did" that failed. A bunch of resources went into those efforts that came to nothing. This is not a zero cost to society. There was always going to be someone who succeeded at this, so noting that Bezos did so is relatively information free. The bigger question is whether the way this happened - let a bunch of money be thrown against the wall and see what sticks - is really the best we can do as a society and as an economy.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#337
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero is the natural interest rate? That’s ludicrous. A dollar today is always going to be worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

Why is this the case about the worth of a dollar?

You can buy stuff today with it vs. waiting til tomorrow.

A dollar you own today has zero risk of not being delivered tomorrow.

You can invest that dollar one day sooner.

If there’s a general expectation of inflation, it exchanges for more today than tomorrow.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#338
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they didn't think so, they'd still be choosing to shop at Sears and Kmart Let's be clear: Amazon has been responsible for the shutting down of so many in-person businesses that entire product categories are can only be purchased on Amazon. The choice is a false one.

Come on. You make it sound as if Amazon started a campaign to directly shut these in-person businesses down. The reality however is more mundane and exactly what parent comment mentioned: people voted with their feet and dollars, the in-person businesses that did shut down could not adapt and we are all the better for it.

I completely agree that it was mundane and expected that's why I don't think bozos deserves to be viewed as a demigod of productivity. It was bound to happen.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#339
If there’s just one nonsense idea that humanity absolutely will not let go of, it’s this one:

In anything other than the short term, you can really make yourself better off by making other people worse off. It’s a feudalist mentality that’s totally obsolete in free markets. Loads of people just continue buying this snake oil by the tankload, making themselves unhappy and unfortunate. Not a way forward.

Re: Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I see you edited your post to add the last line). Elon is not "ruining his own money". He gained control over large quantities of economic and financial resources, and because of the way our society works, he gets to "ruin" those resources by choosing to direct them to the purchase of an asset followed by its degradation. But there's an opportunity cost to all that: what might have happened in Elon was not in a posi…

You could make the opposite argument about all the innovations, are and science, rich people have funded throughout history. Like what if Boeing didn't have all that money to dump into airplanes.

To start with, Boeing benefitted from massive amounts of government contracts during their history, which provided much of the money they "dumped into airplanes".

Secondly, we now see a company whose products have severe safety defects due to the influence of cost-cutting managers, more concerned with profits than quality.

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