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Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#321
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support transparent-to-the-author content moderation, and I suspect that is in the future for today's major platforms, whether they want it or not.

Sure, that could happen. And if it does, it will happen by way of people leaving sites like this one for sites moderated differently. I think we're all OK with letting the market decide.

I would prefer if the market decides, but there are a few non-trivial court cases coming up that may influence what happens.

[1] https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/...

[2] https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/...

[3] https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/...

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, the front page is heavily moderated. Almost every day you'll see posts with 50+ upvotes falling of the front page within an hour or two when some article about LISP with It's disingenuous to blame it on the users when there are clearly other "forces" at play here.

The "force" is actually one or two people. It's hard to prove and impossible to change. No one will believe you, either.

Could you make your accusation more clearly? Are you saying it's 'dang' and 'pg'? One or two regular users abusing the flagging system? Or a couple dark and shadowy figures who have no public presence?

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the is on-topic for HN. The initial invasion was allowed due to the international significance, but to discuss subsequent events head to Reddit. This is in the FAQ linked in the footer. Something novel with drones or new medicine or similar will be on topic.

The ICJ is the world's highest court, and genocide cases are very rare. Their verdict, without any question, has "international significance". It's by far the most significant development in months. From the submission guidelines: > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. People here were clearly finding those stories interesting, as measured by upvotes and comments. > If they'd cover it on TV ne…

[flagged]

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#324
post #133

> The assumption is that a Story cannot go from the top 30 to a position higher than 90 in a single minute, without having been explicitly removed. That's wrong. Both the flamewar detector (a.k.a. the overheated discussion detector) and user flags do that, and there are other software mechanisms that do it too. For example, if a story has been on the front page for more than (IIRC) 18 hours, it gets an automatic down…

> keep in mind that user flags affect a submission's rank long before the [flagged] marker appears What kinds of user flags are there and why are they not public? People should know. Shadowbanning belongs in the 2010s.

It's just the flagging you already have access to (as you have more than 30 karma). It's the flag option. There's nothing special otherwise that I'm aware of (at least at 2500 karma)

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#325
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Generally, after asserting that someone is drastically wrong, the next few paragraphs should be about backing that claim up with convincing evidence and explanations. Instead you digressed into talking about droplets vs aerosols and forgot to even make a connection between that and the "drastically wrong" take you were replying to.

Here's some serious research, spanning one year. Note how the confidence increases throughout time. You can't blame nvm0n2 for taking for granted what is already well-established since three years.

--> May 2020: "How Coronavirus Spreads through the Air: What We Know So Far"

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-coronavirus-s...

>For months, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization have maintained that the novel coronavirus is primarily spread by droplets from someone who is coughing, sneezing or even talking within a few feet away. But anecdotal reports hint that it could be transmissible through particles suspended in the air (so-called "aerosol transmission"). And the WHO recently reversed its guidance to say that such transmission, particularly in “indoor locations where there are crowded and inadequately ventilated spaces where infected persons spend long periods of time with others, cannot be ruled out.”

>Even if aerosols do not travel farther than most droplets, the oft-touted “six-foot rule” for social distancing may depend on the circumstances, Cowling says. If there is a fan or air conditioner, infectious aerosols (or even droplets, as was suspected in the case of that restaurant in China) could potentially sicken someone farther away who is downwind.

--> October 2020: "Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2"

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abf0521

>Viruses in droplets (larger than 100 µm) typically fall to the ground in seconds within 2 m of the source and can be sprayed like tiny cannonballs onto nearby individuals. Because of their limited travel range, physical distancing reduces exposure to these droplets. Viruses in aerosols (smaller than 100 µm) can remain suspended in the air for many seconds to hours, like smoke, and be inhaled. They are highly concentrated near an infected person, so they can infect people most easily in close proximity. But aerosols containing infectious virus (2) can also travel more than 2 m and accumulate in poorly ventilated indoor air, leading to superspreading events (3).

>Individuals with COVID-19, many of whom have no symptoms, release thousands of virus-laden aerosols and far fewer droplets when breathing and talking (4–6). Thus, one is far more likely to inhale aerosols than be sprayed by a droplet (7), and so the balance of attention must be shifted to protecting against airborne transmission. In addition to existing mandates of mask-wearing, social distancing, and hygiene efforts, we urge public health officials to add clear guidance about the importance of moving activities outdoors, improving indoor air using ventilation and filtration, and improving protection for high-risk workers (8).

--> May, 2021: "Ten scientific reasons in support of airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2"

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00869-2/full...

> First, superspreading events account for substantial SARS-CoV-2 transmission; indeed, such events may be the pandemic's primary drivers. [...]

> Second, long-range transmission of SARS-CoV-2 between people in adjacent rooms but never in each other's presence has been documented in quarantine hotels. [...]

> Third, asymptomatic or presymptomatic transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from people who are not coughing or sneezing is likely to account for at least a third, and perhaps up to 59%, of all transmission globally and is a key way SARS-CoV-2 has spread around the world [...]

> Fourth, transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is higher indoors than outdoors and is substantially reduced by indoor ventilation.5 Both observations support a predominantly airborne route of transmission.

> Fifth, nosocomial infections have been documented in health-care organisations, where there have been strict contact-and-droplet precautions and use of personal protective equipment (PPE) designed to protect against droplet but not aerosol exposure.

> Sixth, viable SARS-CoV-2 has been detected in the air. In laboratory experiments, SARS-CoV-2 stayed infectious in the air for up to 3 h with a half-life of 1·1 h. [...]

> Seventh, SARS-CoV-2 has been identified in air filters and building ducts in hospitals with COVID-19 patients; such locations could be reached only by aerosols.

> Eighth, studies involving infected caged animals that were connected to separately caged uninfected animals via an air duct have shown transmission of SARS-CoV-2 that can be adequately explained only by aerosols.

> Ninth, no study to our knowledge has provided strong or consistent evidence to refute the hypothesis of airborne SARS-CoV-2 transmission. [...]

> Tenth, there is limited evidence to support other dominant routes of transmission—ie, respiratory droplet or fomite. [...]

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stories about COVID controversies are almost certainly getting flagged off the front page by users, not touched by mods. People look at the titles of these stories and think that's all flaggers are going by, but lots of people flag stories based on their experience of what the threads are like, and the threads on COVID controversies are fucking dreadful. I didn't flag (or see) that story, but I would have.

But why must they be dreadful? Genuine question, I am not being obtuse. We should be able as a community to discuss conterversial subjects somehow. I also think this sort of thing invites flag brigades. Or better yet, a small batch of bad actor can easily start brigading and forcefully associate such flamewar expectations with any subject they don't like to drive it off HN. Maybe worth reconsidering how you flag? You…

Some things just don't scale well conversationally.

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#328
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "force" is actually one or two people. It's hard to prove and impossible to change. No one will believe you, either.

Could you make your accusation more clearly? Are you saying it's 'dang' and 'pg'? One or two regular users abusing the flagging system? Or a couple dark and shadowy figures who have no public presence?

[deleted]

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#329
post #3

Looking at the list of removed stories makes me really happy with the moderators here. They're all sensationalist, advertising for some company, clickbait, way off topic, or some combination of above. In fact, I don't see a single story that I personally feel should not have been removed. Thanks, mods.

I witnessed a recent front page link silently get changed to point to a parody video, then silently changed back later, with the top comment that remarked on the change silently removed.

That told me all I needed to know about the moderation of this site.

Thankfully someone captured a screenshot: https://merveilles.town/@cancel/111834048502040552

Re: Stories removed from the Hacker News Front Page, updated in real time

#330
post #139

I don't have a problem with users building things like this because the principles by which HN works are all easy enough to explain and defend—just remember that anything this complex is inevitably a mess, so you need to have high tolerance for messiness if you want to understand it accurately. However, it's important to correct inaccuracies like the one mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39231537 .…

There are several low-point, long-lived but highly ranked unnatural posts on the top page that appear to be manipulated. Such unnaturalness and opacity make users feel that the ranking is arbitrary and unfair, even if for good reasons. Can you display the manipulation that has been done on the ranking and other lists per post? For example, a reset of the submission time should be easily displayed.

> There are several low-point, long-lived but highly ranked unnatural posts on the top page that appear to be manipulated.

Which are they? It's important to include links so that (a) we can say what's going on, and (b) so readers can make up their own minds.

You might be talking about stories that went in to the second-chance pool (https://news.ycombinator.com/pool, explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308), which get a random placement on HN's front page.

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