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Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

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Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#271

Most aren't aware of the situation Japan is in today because of the world we all grew up in, where Japan was at one point nearly the largest economy in the world. Japan has been in between a recession and stagnation for 30 years. Their GDP was higher 31 years ago than it is today. [1] Their GDP/capita is $33,950 with most wages well below that. They hit a record high for average wages in 2022 of ¥311,800 - about $2,1…

What blows my mind is that Japan's GDP per capita (PPP) as reported by World Bank is now lower than 4 formerly comparatively "poor" former Easter Block countries: Czechia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Estonia. And just one place above Poland. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?most_... WTF happened in Japan? All the above countries have their own demographic collapse as well BTW.

The typical explanation given is poor economic policy - good times led banks to start lending excessively, excessive lending drove speculation, speculation drove bubbles, those bubbles burst, everything collapsed, and they just never managed to get back up again. But that last part is what most interests me.

Most of the Soviet Bloc type nations you named had reasonable fertility rates under the USSR, only collapsed once the USSR collapsed in 1991, and are inching back up again. Japan, by contrast, never had a particularly great fertility rate post-war. Then it just collapsed in the 1970s and simply kept going down. [1]

Fertility rates just determine so much. With a good fertility rate companies grow naturally because their market size is constantly naturally increasing. And vice versa for poor fertility rates. It also determines the overall age distribution of a population, such as how in Japan now 10% of the population is over 80. When an ever larger chunk of your population is leaving the labor force with not enough people to replace them, and then an even smaller taxpayer base to provide the social benefits necessary to sustain these people in their elder years - everything just becomes completely unsustainable.

And, again, none of this will ever get better such as, for instance, when the older people start passing en masse. This is because fertility rate determines the ratio of distributions within a population. You can see this quite clearly in this [2] population pyramid. The only solution is for them to suddenly start dramatically increasing their fertility rate.

[1] - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?location...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#/media/F...

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#272
post #139

Most aren't aware of the situation Japan is in today because of the world we all grew up in, where Japan was at one point nearly the largest economy in the world. Japan has been in between a recession and stagnation for 30 years. Their GDP was higher 31 years ago than it is today. [1] Their GDP/capita is $33,950 with most wages well below that. They hit a record high for average wages in 2022 of ¥311,800 - about $2,1…

There's a lot of gloom and doom around Japan, but I think there are a few counter-points. 1) Yes, the economy is stagnant. But it's interesting to think about it from the point of view that Japan disproves the idea that a growth economy is the only way. Here is a country that increases worker efficiency and has a really high standard of living, but doesn't do it in a hyper growth kind of way. 2) Yes, Japan is super,…

To your point #1: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/23/business/kohei-saito-degr...

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#273
post #250
post #228

I've often seen suggested in forums that tourist visas forbid any kind of work while visiting a country. I've yet to see a single article of the law that actually points to this. So, I'm inclined to think that when people repeat this, they actually haven't checked. I have looked at the clauses on many tourist visas, as given to me by various consulates, and seen no evidence of this new interpretation. A tourist visa…

Visa rules were typically set up at a time when there was no such thing as remote work to speak of. When they mention working, they don't make any distinction between remote or local work. For example, a US B-2 visitor visa allows "tourism" and also specific business purposes such as "consult with business associates" or "attend a conference". What is prohibited is simply "employment", without making any distinction…

"Employment" on that list is among other items of "Not permitted travel purposes" that hint at an obvious implied context for the said purposes, i.e. the United States. You are not allowed to visit the United States for the purpose of employment while on a visitor's visa. A digital nomad typically is already employed and doesn't visit countries for that purpose.

Having traveled to the US a number of times and been asked by border agents, I've explained that although employment not being the purpose of my visit, I often work on my computer for my own business, in my own country. After a brief exchange to clarify that my activities in no way involved US businesses or clients, I was cleared. I agree with you that the rule might seem fuzzy, but based on the questions asked, the intent has never been.

In the many years that I've traveled, it's historically been the same in any countries that I've visited. Even the ones where it's currently suggested that the issue might be blurrier (coincidentally after they start issuing nomad visas). Meanwhile, no one can tell you specifically what exactly constitutes a "digital nomad" and what makes them "not a tourist". I think it's unfortunate that instead of asking for more clarity from regulators, travelers are playing along by repeating the suggested tropes.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genetic extermination is the same as genocide No, it isn't. Nobody is "exterminating" the Japanese. They're culturally unsustainable. It's not fucking Genocide when you're doing it to yourself. There's no Panda Holocaust either.

Nobody has said that, try reading my comment better: "Colonisation always goes hand in hand with genetic extermination of the natives" I'm saying that when people start proposing and planning colonisation of a foreign country, genetic extermination usually follows. Edit: I think I see what confused you. I wrote "it's happening right now" not referring to Japan, but referring to humanity at large.

> I'm saying that when people start proposing and planning colonisation of a foreign country, genetic extermination usually follows.

And I don't disagree with you.

What I'm objecting to is your hyperbole; on further thought I don't care much for your throwing around of this "genetic extermination" term either.

"Extermination" implies a third party is involved and has a hand on the gas valve. A more appropriate euphemism would be "genetic extinction."

Genocide is explicitly defined as "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." The immigrants are not arriving onshore and butchering the natives.

Words have meaning and this one does not invite ambiguity. A genetic clique disappearing because of cross-breeding is not goddamn Genocide. It's just Nature.

And again, I'd argue they're doing it to themselves. They just handed the title of Miss Japan to a Ukie. Now this. Nobody's making them sell out to foreigners. They could just as easily halve their pointlessly-bureaucratic workweek and subsidize childcare.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#275
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this comment comes across as extremely nationalistic, sorry to say but to the point of being fascistic (and I’m not one for using this term lightly).

I agree the tone was aggressive but this is arguably a real issue and it's not as simple as it seems at first Israel as a "Jewish state" is arguably a place that would not exist if they let in unlimited immigration because it would soon be majority not Jewish. I see that's in conflict with the idea that people should be/do whatever they want. I don't see how to reconcile the two sides. Radiolab had an episode on this…

  > The reason being rich non-Samoans would quickly buy up the entire island and there would be no Samoa / Samoan culture anymore. 
isn't this more of a class (rich vs non-rich) issue than an immigration issue?

  > I don't know how to resolve that.
allow only people who live long-term and actually reside there to buy property might be one strategy?

  > On the other hand, something will be lost, something that seems to have value, which is the cultures of the people there currently.
its true but its also true many of those cultures most prized traditions come from the intersection of native and foreign creating something new in the first-place... something might be lost but another gained...

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btw, slight tangent but i think there is also a contradiction with immigration policy in regards to attracting rich foreigners: many countries want them because its supposed that they bring capital/money with them in the hopes of spurring investment and local economy but the flip-side is what you describe where the rich foreigners start owning/dominating things to the detriment of locals... and countries conversely don't want the non-rich to stay long-term because they aren't perceived as high-class/desirable yet they are the ones that work in the 'productive economy' which might help the locals more in the long and short term....i think there is an issue there as well...

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this comment comes across as extremely nationalistic, sorry to say but to the point of being fascistic (and I’m not one for using this term lightly).

Nationalism was historically the reaction against imperialism. Some empires transformed into nation states, such as Great Britain. Most countries who are independent today are independent because of nationalistic movements against imperialism and colonisation.

  > movements against imperialism and colonisation.
is it possible that nationalism could ironically also feed into new forms of imperialism?

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#277
post #96
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because people break copyright law all the time and it's not enforced doesn't mean it's legal to do so. Same principle here I know I broke the law on the way back from the station earlier as I did 61mph in a 60 zone. Just because I didn't get caught doesn't make it legal.

This is not how the US judicial system works. We are innocent until proven guilty. In the case above, to say it is illegal even though it was not proven violates the above. Also, many “laws” aren’t technically codified but instead have been established by precedent, and no precedent is hard and fast. Technically you could argue both the things you mentioned above in court and win, rendering your actions legal.

We're not talking about the US judicial system here.

And your statement is nonsense, murdering someone is illegal whether it's proven or not.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#278
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't have the imaginative capabilities of seeing the entire archipelago depopulated but I suppose it's possible.

If current rates continue, which is a big assumption, then Japan will have 106M people by 2050 and 75M by 2100, which was roughly the population before WW2. Japan is already one of the most densely populated areas in the world, so further population growth may not be the greatest idea. They already have good standards of living, great infrastructure, high societal trust, low crime, a competent government, etc. Europe…

> 106M people by 2050 and 75M by 2100

of those, most will be old. Population before WW2 was a much healthier mix of old, working age and children.

Who will cater to all the old? Who will pay for the social safety net programs?

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has said that, try reading my comment better: "Colonisation always goes hand in hand with genetic extermination of the natives" I'm saying that when people start proposing and planning colonisation of a foreign country, genetic extermination usually follows. Edit: I think I see what confused you. I wrote "it's happening right now" not referring to Japan, but referring to humanity at large.

> I'm saying that when people start proposing and planning colonisation of a foreign country, genetic extermination usually follows. And I don't disagree with you. What I'm objecting to is your hyperbole; on further thought I don't care much for your throwing around of this "genetic extermination" term either. "Extermination" implies a third party is involved and has a hand on the gas valve. A more appropriate euphem…

> Genocide is explicitly defined as "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." The immigrants are not arriving onshore and butchering the natives.

No, but when immigrant/coloniser diaspora becomes large enough in numbers they rise up against the natives and start displacing them, most often violently. As seen almost always throughout history, or in the news tonight.

> It's just Nature.

Nature is nature, and human policy is separate from that. Displacing enormous amounts of people to "fix" some imaginary GDP number is as far from nature as can be, unless we argue that war and genocide is a natural behaviour among human beings. Which unfortunately I think we can. Then again if it's "just nature", then why do people here argue for organising mass migration to Japan. Let nature have it's course then?

As for the rest of your comment, you are arguing automatically based on what you have imagined that I wrote, even though I tried to clarify to you. I don't know how I can get my point through, so you can understand that I connected organised foreign colonisation / mass migration to Japan with genocide. Because one usually follows the other.

Even an outright military invasion can be less of a threat to a nation, since some conquerors only want to extract resources and tributes without taking over the land by putting their own population there.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#280
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not ever place needs to turn into cosmopolitan London. In the same way that Japan showed it’s possible to have a high standard of living without obsessing over growth, I trust that the Japanese can find a path forward that doesn’t default to “just bring in millions of immigrants”.

Why are we treating a known working and humanitarian strategy as some evil "growth" thing? I feel like we're dragging that term out of the hyper-capitalistic sense it's meant to evoke. People ought to be able to move where they're most happy / productive. One consequence of that may be that a place turns "into cosmopolitan London". But that's hardly a horror.

I think the argument against can be boiled down to this hypothetical analogy:

A few friends and I like your home better than ours. It's much nicer and safer than where we currently live, so we move into a few open bedrooms.

Now that we outnumber you and your family, we vote to change things in the common areas more to our liking. Some changes are small and happen over time, others more jarring and immediate. You like some of these changes in some cases, but sometimes quite the opposite.

Is it a foregone conclusion that this situation is for the greater good? If so, should your family be pressured or forced to accept?

Who has the power to make that determination?

After all, you were only there first so what gives you the right to prevent others from moving in?

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Personally, I can see the argument for both sides.

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