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Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#131

Post by fxtentacle »

elzbardico wrote: post #51

In most countries you can't do any kind of work while in a tourist Visa, but this was never enforced, because it was so exceedingly rare for not to be on governments radar. But once it became more prevalent, it creates the problem (on governments view, especially post 9/11) of having a bunch of foreign folks living for months and receiving money from abroad for god knows which reason. This creates the problem for law…

My impression is that there's a considerable overlap between people monetizing digital nomad content and what citizens of their residence country would call "shady characters".

https://www.inc.com/magazine/202309/eric-hagerman/how-mikkel...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYciU1uiUw

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#132

Post by mdasen »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #31
alibarber wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretending to be a tourist is a good way to get deported usually in a lot of places.

Depends on your definition of tourist. If you are there for legitimate business within that country that is obviously a big no-no. If you are a tourist who works for a foreign company while visiting a country, well I don't know a single person who has been actually deported for this. I know it can happen, but most places seem to not care much, and mostly care you're spending your money in their country. I am a digita…

I agree that people are really unlikely to be deported for this, but I'm not sure that countries would treat you favorably if you walked up to immigration and said "I'm here to work in your country on a tourist visa, but don't worry because I'm just working remotely for a foreign company."

I think a big part of this is that it's basically impossible to find digital nomads. How would a country know if you're in a hotel room or coffee shop working on your laptop? If you don't tell anyone what you're doing, they aren't going to know.

Digital nomads also don't trigger the same "taking a job that a local could have" fear that drives a lot of immigration policies. As you note, you're just a person in that country spending money. However, you're also probably not paying taxes. I think there's a bit of a tension there. On the one hand, you're bringing in foreign money. On the other hand, you're using services just as a resident would and not paying all the taxes (you are likely paying some taxes like sales/VAT).

Ultimately, I think a big part is that countries haven't figured out what to think of digital nomads. Heck, companies haven't figured out how to feel about them. Companies still haven't settled on whether remote workers should be paid less if they move to a cheaper location.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#133

Post by [deleted] »

somenameforme wrote: post #112

Most aren't aware of the situation Japan is in today because of the world we all grew up in, where Japan was at one point nearly the largest economy in the world. Japan has been in between a recession and stagnation for 30 years. Their GDP was higher 31 years ago than it is today. [1] Their GDP/capita is $33,950 with most wages well below that. They hit a record high for average wages in 2022 of ¥311,800 - about $2,1…

[deleted]

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#134

Post by balls187 »

herbst wrote: post #79

People seem to underestimate how limiting tourist visas actually are. Imagine you sell digital products automated or something like that. You would have to literally shut your website down if you go somewhere on a tourist visa so you don't accidently make money. You might think there are exceptions, but no there usually aren't. And now imagine you actually live from a digital business you run yourself. You literally…

That logically doesn’t make sense.

Salary workers will still receive their paycheck even while on travel/holiday/vacation. Are they violating tourist visa restrictions? If a person checks their work email while on a tourist visa?

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#135

Post by herbst »

wongarsu wrote: post #126
herbst wrote: post #79

People seem to underestimate how limiting tourist visas actually are. Imagine you sell digital products automated or something like that. You would have to literally shut your website down if you go somewhere on a tourist visa so you don't accidently make money. You might think there are exceptions, but no there usually aren't. And now imagine you actually live from a digital business you run yourself. You literally…

You can (and probably should) incorporate your business. Then you write yourself an employment contract and give yourself vacation whenever you want to travel. The bigger issue is that actually having a vacation where you don't work is unrealistic if you run a business by yourself, but is what the letter of the law demands for most tourist visas.

Your last point is where it gets complicated. I can barely have a week for myself, I can't realistically go anywhere for a month without 'working'.

(Yes I know, nobody will ever know)

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#136

Post by atxbcp »

treprinum wrote: post #61
gejose wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone’s preferences differ when it comes to travel destinations. What may not have worked for you might actually be great for someone else. Ultimately, the decision to visit a destination should be based on personal interests and experiences.

Sure, I just remember on my last day in Japan I actually felt sadness that I didn't find whatever I was looking for, despite seeing like 15 UNESCO World Heritage sites, but essentially didn't make any lasting connection on a personal level with anyone due to being unable to break the formal shell of anyone. Total opposite to e.g. Brazil when one could make friends in 5 minutes and those folks remembered you for years…

Tourists expecting to form lasting connections with locals always made me laugh. How deep can these connections be if you're only staying for a month? Why would a local invest in a 'lasting' connection that's just for a month?

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#137

Post by FirmwareBurner »

fxtentacle wrote: post #120
somenameforme wrote: post #112

Most aren't aware of the situation Japan is in today because of the world we all grew up in, where Japan was at one point nearly the largest economy in the world. Japan has been in between a recession and stagnation for 30 years. Their GDP was higher 31 years ago than it is today. [1] Their GDP/capita is $33,950 with most wages well below that. They hit a record high for average wages in 2022 of ¥311,800 - about $2,1…

Yeah I also find it weird because "To be eligible for the new status, applicants must have an annual income equivalent to 10 million yen ($68,000) or more" which means the newly created Digital Nomad class needs to have 2x the average GDP/capita in income?

So they only want high earning workers from developed countries, basically the kind of immigrants every other country wants but doesn't dare say it out loud. What's wrong with that? Their country, their rules.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#138

Post by Jcampuzano2 »

seydor wrote: post #102

why are cities trying to attract nomads? They are almost by definition doing location arbitrage, thus paying less in both their country of origin and country of destination.

The answer is simple - money. Digital nomads typically don't take jobs from local residents, they on average have more and are willing to spend more money than the typical local resident, and additionally the country has no responsibility to provide social benefits to a digital nomad and thus they are low cost.

Additionally while digital nomads may sometimes be ignorant of local culture/tradition and that can be somewhat annoying, they typically don't cause problems when it comes to crime.

Now there are legitimate concerns with respect to housing with things like AirBNB's/under the table housing arrangements and causing the housing prices to increase, but while that is an issue to a local resident it is actually seen as a positive to the city itself when it comes to the economy.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#139

Post by awongh »

somenameforme wrote: post #112

Most aren't aware of the situation Japan is in today because of the world we all grew up in, where Japan was at one point nearly the largest economy in the world. Japan has been in between a recession and stagnation for 30 years. Their GDP was higher 31 years ago than it is today. [1] Their GDP/capita is $33,950 with most wages well below that. They hit a record high for average wages in 2022 of ¥311,800 - about $2,1…

There's a lot of gloom and doom around Japan, but I think there are a few counter-points.

1) Yes, the economy is stagnant. But it's interesting to think about it from the point of view that Japan disproves the idea that a growth economy is the only way. Here is a country that increases worker efficiency and has a really high standard of living, but doesn't do it in a hyper growth kind of way.

2) Yes, Japan is super, super xenophobic compared to other countries. This is contrasted with it being one of the top tourist destinations on earth. I think things like digital nomad visa could be a small step on the way to closing this dichotomy. It's clear that one of the easy levers Japan could pull to alleviate their economic issues would be to allow more immigration, and I think the world's facination with Japan and Japanese culture is such that they could pull it off.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#140

Post by beaeglebeached »

herbst wrote: post #124
beaeglebeached wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A night or two in jail doesn't sound the worst for that kind of savings. Especially if you have someone to pay 'rent' for a nicer cell space.

What kind of savings? I live in Switzerland now and barely spend more in a lazy month than I did in 'super cheap thailand'

Not sure about Thailand but key in Philippines is to go in the village/province where the locals are the primary consumers of housing. It helps if you know local families to keep you from getting ripped off.
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