Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads' • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#111

Post by Jcampuzano2 » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 3:59 PM UTC

herbst wrote: post #79

People seem to underestimate how limiting tourist visas actually are. Imagine you sell digital products automated or something like that. You would have to literally shut your website down if you go somewhere on a tourist visa so you don't accidently make money. You might think there are exceptions, but no there usually aren't. And now imagine you actually live from a digital business you run yourself. You literally…

Honestly I just think you and some others get too stuck on specific rules.

There are thousands of people who run digital companies and travel all the time, including people who literally travel full-time as digital nomads with zero issues whatsoever.

I can almost guarantee you that if you left the EU and "accidentally" made money via your website you would have no trouble coming and going given that I literally know and have met people all over outside of the EU, who are from the EU and do exactly this.

Even in just this past week I've met like 3 people from the EU travelling full-time who run their own bussiness online while I'm located here in South America.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#112

Post by somenameforme » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 3:59 PM UTC

Most aren't aware of the situation Japan is in today because of the world we all grew up in, where Japan was at one point nearly the largest economy in the world. Japan has been in between a recession and stagnation for 30 years. Their GDP was higher 31 years ago than it is today. [1] Their GDP/capita is $33,950 with most wages well below that. They hit a record high for average wages in 2022 of ¥311,800 - about $2,100. [2]

Next - they're dying off. They hit their inflection point in 2009 and they've been shrinking since [3]. They've lost more than 5million people since 2009. And the "fun" thing about fertility collapse is that the decline will never stop. Their population will keep shrinking down at the 'equilibrium rate' (decided by fertility rate) until they start having babies, or go extinct. The exact same will happen to every other country with sub-replacement fertility rates.

This, IMO, is an effort to try to attract a certain type of immigrant largely for the purposes of revenue generation.

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[1] - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?location...

[2] - https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01631/

[2] - https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-populat...

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#113

Post by treprinum » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 3:59 PM UTC

martinald wrote: post #82

treprinum wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or nice warm winters. Nobody wants to be there between June-September, but outside that it's much better than suffering in rainy gloomy Scotland or another unfortunate European country. And your tax is 0% as a bonus. There is also Andorra with 10% tax but it can get ugly during autumn/winter there as well.

I don't mean the weather. I mean the horrendous 'bling' culture, complete car dependency that would make even LA blush and everything that goes along with it. While Dubai is a massive impressive display of what humanity can do so quickly, the place gives me the shudders. Obviously YMMV but it is not comparable to Japan.

Yeah, it's different, in many ways Dubai is what future looks like these days whereas Japan looks like what future looked like in the 80s. One can isolate oneself from the bling culture by staying in the Internet City or similar zones where there are mostly geeks around and just explore engineering marvels.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#114

Post by herbst » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 3:59 PM UTC

oldtownroad wrote: post #86

herbst wrote: post #79

People seem to underestimate how limiting tourist visas actually are. Imagine you sell digital products automated or something like that. You would have to literally shut your website down if you go somewhere on a tourist visa so you don't accidently make money. You might think there are exceptions, but no there usually aren't. And now imagine you actually live from a digital business you run yourself. You literally…

That’s not true. The jurisdiction that your business operates in doesn’t change depending on where you’re located. If you’re running a business without a business entity (why?) then you can use a merchant of record service (like Paddle) which will serve that role for you.

Guess that's a good point. However I still wouldn't be legally allowed to work.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#115

Post by wharvle » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 3:59 PM UTC

andybak wrote: post #2

The salary requirement seems harsh for people working on non-profit, self-funded or early-stage.

The point is to get people in who'll spend money. Governments don't usually create visa programs to be nice—they do it for some benefit.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#116

Post by nicbou » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 3:59 PM UTC

alibarber wrote: post #39

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your definition of tourist. If you are there for legitimate business within that country that is obviously a big no-no. If you are a tourist who works for a foreign company while visiting a country, well I don't know a single person who has been actually deported for this. I know it can happen, but most places seem to not care much, and mostly care you're spending your money in their country. I am a digita…

My definition of tourist is unimportant. That of the person at the border with the ability to deprive you of your liberty is.

And when did that definition get people in trouble?

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#117

Post by lupire » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 4:01 PM UTC

informatimago wrote: post #21

mytailorisrich wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously this type of visa is aimed at getting people to spend money in the country. Why would they want people with no money?

Well, the digital nomad doesn't spend a lot of money. Some on accommodation, some for internet, some for food, and that's it. He spends his time remote working on his laptop. His income is paid offshore. Apart from the tourist aspect of it, the point of a digital nomad is to save money on rent, food and taxes, not to spend all your money in a foreign country. Of course, a business hub, or a technological hub can attr…

Why would a nomad spend less than a resident?

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#118

Post by resoluteteeth » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 4:01 PM UTC

oldtownroad wrote: post #65

resoluteteeth wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if there's a specific rule that says that explicitly, but you aren't allowed to work if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, and the government's opinion is that this includes remote work for a company outside of japan, so it doesn't really matter that there's no rule saying that explicitly. That's also the whole reason for potentially introducing this new type of visa; if you were allowed to do remote wo…

I’m asking because I visit Japan on a tourist visa and I have never encountered this rule. I’d like to learn more about it from official sources. The purpose of a digital nomad visa is to allow for a longer stay.

> I’m asking because I visit Japan on a tourist visa and I have never encountered this rule. I’d like to learn more about it from official sources.

Unfortunately, I don't think this a specific rule which makes it hard to point to a source, but you simply aren't allowed to work in any form if you are in Japan on a tourist visa, and from the government's perspective, this obviously includes remote work.

If you want some specific government opinion in writing saying that remote work is illegal under tourist visas under current law, after the government holds public comment, it usually publishes an interim report compiling the comments it has received along with analysis, and I imagine that in this case the report will note this, but right now I can't find an official document stating this. However, googling it, there are various opinions from law firms agreeing that it is illegal.

There is also no reason you would have "encountered" this because the only way you would be able to encounter it is if you somehow made the government aware that you were illegally working remotely and they deported you.

It's basically impossible for them to tell if you are working remotely though, so it's almost a moot point in most cases unless you specifically go out of your way to make the government aware.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#119

Post by mekoka » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 4:02 PM UTC

herbst wrote: post #88

elzbardico wrote: post #51

In most countries you can't do any kind of work while in a tourist Visa, but this was never enforced, because it was so exceedingly rare for not to be on governments radar. But once it became more prevalent, it creates the problem (on governments view, especially post 9/11) of having a bunch of foreign folks living for months and receiving money from abroad for god knows which reason. This creates the problem for law…

When I was in Thailand about 7 or 8 years ago they just recently raided a co-working coffee and jailed the 'nomads' over night (as far as I remember) there was also regular talks about what to tell and not tell border patrol and official visa places. Most people I met just paid taxes 'at home' or were generally lost in limbo financially but there always was an awareness about this being illegal.

You need to finish that story. Those people were released after it was made clear that they were not working for Thai companies. It was not about them working in Thailand while on a tourist visa. It was about not taking local jobs.

Re: Japan to introduce six-month residency visa for 'digital nomads'

#120

Post by fxtentacle » Fri, Feb 02, 2024, 4:02 PM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #112

Most aren't aware of the situation Japan is in today because of the world we all grew up in, where Japan was at one point nearly the largest economy in the world. Japan has been in between a recession and stagnation for 30 years. Their GDP was higher 31 years ago than it is today. [1] Their GDP/capita is $33,950 with most wages well below that. They hit a record high for average wages in 2022 of ¥311,800 - about $2,1…

Yeah I also find it weird because

"To be eligible for the new status, applicants must have an annual income equivalent to 10 million yen ($68,000) or more"

which means the newly created Digital Nomad class needs to have 2x the average GDP/capita in income?