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Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

arstechnica.com

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Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#341

Post by CRConrad »

danaris wrote: post #287
crote wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like driving on snowy, icy winter roads in the northern US and all of Canada. No. Plenty of people get by with normal-sized cars under similar conditions in countries like Sweden, Norway, and Finland. Not to mention that SUVs are actually worse in such environments due to their almost-universal terrible performance in the Moose Test.

Did you miss the part where I pointed out that excessive size is not an inherent property of SUVs?

Did you miss the part where that's exactly the main problem with them that pretty much everyone else here is talking about, i.e. what this discussion is (mainly) about?

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#342

Post by CRConrad »

mikrotikker wrote: post #230
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should just be outright banned. The high hood doesn't serve any practical purpose.

How do you even work on the engine in that thing?

I suppose most garages still have a hoist in the ceiling for lifting out engines. Just hoist up the mechanic with that and lower him into the engine bay.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#343

Post by CRConrad »

stcredzero wrote: post #89
sickofparadox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 a…

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Lots of Americans want smaller trucks. I just saw a Netflix show where a main character prized his old Toyota pickup. This is also evidenced in the importation of Japanese "K-car" trucks.

"Kei cars". It's a Japanese word, not "kay is how we pronounce the letter K".

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#344

Post by CRConrad »

jewayne wrote: post #309
autoexec wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also looks like the solution to the problem isn't to get rid of the regulations, but to change them so that light trucks and giant cars no longer get a break on emissions/fuel economy standards. Revised regulations that incentive smaller cars would solve a lot of problems.

> Revised regulations that incentive smaller cars would solve a lot of problems. I agree wholeheartedly, but the change in the CAFE standards had another effect that was just as important: it allowed Ford and GM to get out of the market for actual cars (sedans, coupes, and station wagons) almost entirely. Changing back to the CAFE standards from 2007 would probably decimate their current business model, and the polit…

If they could switch from making one kind of vehicle to another they can also switch back again.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#345

Post by CRConrad »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #99
sickofparadox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 a…

> It's government regulations that made trucks get this big This is presented incredibly dishonestly in this context. It's well understood that automakers had their grubby little hands all over emissions regulations in the late Bush admin. They spent oodles of cash, tons of lobbyist time, and BEGGED for the exclusions for trucks that made complete sense at the time for TRUCKS, as in, pickup trucks used by laborers th…

I weep at having only one upvote to give this post.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#346

Post by CRConrad »

B56b wrote: post #167
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's government regulations that made trucks get this big This is presented incredibly dishonestly in this context. It's well understood that automakers had their grubby little hands all over emissions regulations in the late Bush admin. They spent oodles of cash, tons of lobbyist time, and BEGGED for the exclusions for trucks that made complete sense at the time for TRUCKS, as in, pickup trucks used by laborers th…

With the ubiquity of SUVs at this point I can't imagine that many of them are being sold to men wanting to feel more "Rugged". I would think the vast majority are bought by those who want the additional space and safety of these cars, like families. It's going to be very difficult to convince consumers to drive cars smaller cars they see as less safe without some significant costs imposed on larger cars.

> majority are bought by those who want the additional space and safety of these cars, like families.

The ridicuolus things about this are

1) That amount of interior space needs such a huge exterior only because manufacturers can get away with hugely inefficient packaging -- "Hey, if you want more space than a 1984 Honda Civic, just buy our Humongo-Ultra-Barge in stead of the mere Humongo-Barge!"

2) That safety comes only for the actual occupants of the Humongo-(Ultra-)Barge, at the expense of everyone else -- like, the pedestrians you run over with your Humongo-(Ultra-)Barge because you can't see them from inside your Humongo-(Ultra-)Barge -- and is only necessary because everyone else (except those pedestrians) is also driving around in an Humongo-(Ultra-)Barge.

:: Impose those significant costs larger cars and you'll actually be safer in a smaller car, because then everyone else will also be driving around in smaller cars in stead of Humongo-(Ultra-)Barges.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#347

Post by CRConrad »

njarboe wrote: post #332
jewayne wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the smallest trucks were put in the car efficiency standards. I don't think that's exactly true. It's just that fuel standards for light trucks are now defined in terms of the footprint of the vehicle -- the smaller the truck, the higher the fuel standard. Which is, of course, exactly what the automakers wanted: They make more money selling bigger trucks. I found the light truck CAFE standards online. Notice ho…

That is quite a complicated way to calculate the CAFE standard. I wonder what the definition of "light truck" is? CAFE doesn't help day to day either. When you buy the car is when you are thinking most about gas prices and fuel efficiency. When gas prices are high people buy fuel efficient cars. The Prius, Teslas, etc. already exists so people can already show preference for fuel efficiency and manufactures can follo…

> I'm sure fuel efficiency standard can be gamed like diesel gate more easliy than the volume of a gallon of gas.

Well, the volume of a "gallon" of gas is of course technically far easier to game... Which is why there have been regulations, including technical countermeasures and I imagine rather substantial penalties, on that sort of thing for... The best part of a century, or actually over a century now?

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#348

Post by CRConrad »

Johnny555 wrote: post #50
olyjohn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't ignore that every other person also has moved from driving cars to crossovers that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high, and that's what sells crossovers. The hoods are higher in them too and we can't discount this and blame it all on big trucks.

that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high Isn't that the advantage? In a world where SUV's and trucks are more popular than sedans, sitting higher gives a sight advantage (and probably safety advantage in a side collision with one of those high cars). I drive a midsized sedan most of the time, but when I drive the RV (which has a higher seating position than many SUV's), I love…

> sitting higher gives a sight advantage

No, it just restores parity. Sitting in your "SUV" (=CUV) you can't see over all the other "SUVs" (CUVs) any more than you could see over all the other sedans when you were in one. Get everyone back into a real sensible car and you'll see just as well from your own real sensible car as you can from your faux-macho-designed station wagon on (short) stilts now.

[Editorial "you" throughout.]

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#349

Post by CRConrad »

closewith wrote: post #48
olyjohn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't ignore that every other person also has moved from driving cars to crossovers that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high, and that's what sells crossovers. The hoods are higher in them too and we can't discount this and blame it all on big trucks.

Ease of entry alone, especially for the elderly or with young children, is an incredible advantage. What it sounds like is that crossovers don't offer advantages that appeal to you.

> Ease of entry alone, especially for the elderly or with young children

Betcha toddlers have an easier time getting into a 1990s sedan or station wagon than scrambling up into the silly-high big trucks people have been brainwashed to think of as "family vehicle" nowadays.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#350

Post by CRConrad »

closewith wrote: post #278
olyjohn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandma has a minivan. It's way better than a crossover for ease of getting into. The floor height is nice and low so she doesn't have to step way up into it. The roof height is high so she doesn't have to scrunch in. It's easier to strap in car seats, it's easier to load your kids into. It's not a marketing joke like crossovers are. What it sounds like, is that you didn't actually shop very hard for the right veh…

Minivans, at least in my market, are more or less double the price of crossovers, so they're not like-for-like. You're very dismissive in your comments here. I wonder if some self reflection is in order here.

> I wonder if some self reflection is in order here.

I guess he will. Mean while, how about the same from you?

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