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Nasopharyngeal Lymphatics Found to Be Crucial for Cerebrospinal Fluid Outflow

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Re: Nasopharyngeal Lymphatics Found to Be Crucial for Cerebrospinal Fluid Outflow

#21

Post by vjaswal »

jbandela1 wrote: post #15

> We aim to investigate in a reliable animal model whether activating the cervical lymphatic vessels through pharmacological or mechanical means can prevent the exacerbation of Alzheimer’s disease progression by improving CSF clearance. While this is interesting, I don't think it will make much of a difference clinically. The reason is that cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) circulation and drainage is something that doctors,…

Incidentally, I know of a few people, friends of my parents, that have gotten a shunt for NPH. They suffered from one of the 3 "W" symptoms of NPH, wet, wobbly, wackiness, that you're certainly aware of.

One had a dramatic improvement very quickly, where one or more of the Ws was resolved. Another had the spinal tap indicating she was a good candidate, but the shunt is still not resolving all the issues even after 2 months.

Do you have any clinical experience with the success rates of the shunt?

Re: Nasopharyngeal Lymphatics Found to Be Crucial for Cerebrospinal Fluid Outflow

#22

Post by po »

jbandela1 wrote: post #15

> We aim to investigate in a reliable animal model whether activating the cervical lymphatic vessels through pharmacological or mechanical means can prevent the exacerbation of Alzheimer’s disease progression by improving CSF clearance. While this is interesting, I don't think it will make much of a difference clinically. The reason is that cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) circulation and drainage is something that doctors,…

Really interesting. Amazing we can just drill a hole and drain fluid into our abdomen and it's no biggie.

Are you (or anybody reading) aware of any Alzheimer's studies that looked at CSF drainage? I just found this 2017 paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5577629/

Re: Nasopharyngeal Lymphatics Found to Be Crucial for Cerebrospinal Fluid Outflow

#24

Post by jbandela1 »

po wrote: post #22
jbandela1 wrote: post #15

> We aim to investigate in a reliable animal model whether activating the cervical lymphatic vessels through pharmacological or mechanical means can prevent the exacerbation of Alzheimer’s disease progression by improving CSF clearance. While this is interesting, I don't think it will make much of a difference clinically. The reason is that cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) circulation and drainage is something that doctors,…

Really interesting. Amazing we can just drill a hole and drain fluid into our abdomen and it's no biggie. Are you (or anybody reading) aware of any Alzheimer's studies that looked at CSF drainage? I just found this 2017 paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5577629/

I am not aware of clinical studies on that.

One thing that to me makes me think it might be more correlation than causation is that the nasal turbinate pathway is not the major CSF absorption pathway. We know this because people who have blocked CSF circulation lower than that, end up with high pressures inside the skull and require an EVD or else they die.

In addition, lumbar punctures collecting CSF for analysis are used for some diagnostic studies. I did not see anyone suggesting that the lumbar puncture itself might help with Alzheimer’s.

Re: Nasopharyngeal Lymphatics Found to Be Crucial for Cerebrospinal Fluid Outflow

#25

Post by jbandela1 »

vjaswal wrote: post #21
jbandela1 wrote: post #15

> We aim to investigate in a reliable animal model whether activating the cervical lymphatic vessels through pharmacological or mechanical means can prevent the exacerbation of Alzheimer’s disease progression by improving CSF clearance. While this is interesting, I don't think it will make much of a difference clinically. The reason is that cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) circulation and drainage is something that doctors,…

Incidentally, I know of a few people, friends of my parents, that have gotten a shunt for NPH. They suffered from one of the 3 "W" symptoms of NPH, wet, wobbly, wackiness, that you're certainly aware of. One had a dramatic improvement very quickly, where one or more of the Ws was resolved. Another had the spinal tap indicating she was a good candidate, but the shunt is still not resolving all the issues even after 2…

My survey of papers revealed from around 25% to 90% depending on who you read.

I think a lot is dependent on which patients you choose since some other diseases can mimic NPH.

I think my anecdotal experience is around 1/3 to 2/3 had improvement, which is similar to what you saw as well.

Re: Nasopharyngeal Lymphatics Found to Be Crucial for Cerebrospinal Fluid Outflow

#28

Post by methou »

m3kw9 wrote: post #27

I know ppl that breathe with mouth during sleep say they felt much better after taping their mouths so they use their nose instead. Don’t tape it shut tho lol (disclaimer

Last time at a pharmacy, I saw they selling these tapes, to my surprise, quite many brands are making these. I thought it was a niche market, but after tried it anyway, I can feel the improvement actually. (Isolated case)

Re: Nasopharyngeal Lymphatics Found to Be Crucial for Cerebrospinal Fluid Outflow

#30

Post by frankus »

NoPedantsThanks wrote: post #18
abracadaniel wrote: post #4

Fascinating. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I immediately have questions about whether sleep quality links with neurodegenerative disease are instead a symptom of sleep apnea via reduced lymphatic stimulation and not sleep itself. Could diet impact it, not by the composition of the food, but by consistency and how much chewing is involved. Could chewing gum make a difference? Neck exercises? I wonder if there is a c…

My dad has Parkinson's and has very poor-quality sleep. He also has had anti-snoring surgery in the past, and chronic post-nasal drip (which I also seem to have). This article raises questions in my mind as to whether any of these are related. Also interesting is this: "researchers were able to successfully modulate cervical lymphatics using phenylephrine (which activates α1-adrenergic receptors, causing smooth-muscl…

IIUC it’s the minimal bioavailability of it in pill form that’s the problem, but it works ok when injected.
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