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A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

matrix.org

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Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#21

Post by Arathorn »

SebastianKra wrote: post #15

I believe Matrix's Now-or-Never Moment has passed. My last attempt to use Matrox with a group ended in: - 3 users not receiving notifications on Android - 2 users regularly not being able to decrypt messages - No one being able to invite new contacts unless on Desktop At the same time, Element was working on probably the third app redesign, when the current one... was fine. These issues crop up, without fail, every t…

I agree (as project lead for Matrix) that we've ended up going much slower than I'd have hoped. The sibling probably has it right that we bit off more than we could chew. However, we've kept doggedly chewing, and after hitting 1.0 back in 2020 we're now gearing up to 2.0 which brings both performance & stability to mainstream levels.

The problems you've described on (presumably) Element Android are precisely why Element just rebuilt the app (as Element X) on a rust SDK which solves encryption & push problems in one place, rather than being split chasing bugs in triplicate across iOS, Android and Web/Desktop. In turn, this explains why the old apps have stalled.

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#23

Post by caslon »

Arathorn wrote: post #20
caslon wrote: post #2

> Otherwise, we need to start scaling back programs and staff starting January 2025. They've already done so. 2023 saw a (rather extensive) wave of layoffs, and a reduction in scale. Part of the issue is that Matthew is not the best communicator, which isn't great for fundraising. That being said, Josh isn't off to a strong start, either. Somehow, neither of them managed to spin the Apache -> AGPL move for Synapse as…

Sorry that you feel we haven't done a good job of communicating on this. Personally, I think that https://element.io/blog/synapse-now-lives-at-github-com-elem... was pretty comprehensive in explaining the rationale. > This offers no protection against Element dropping open source entirely the next time they hit a "budget crisis." IANAL, but I think you have this completely wrong. The clarification to the Apache CLA w…

> I wonder how much of the "consistent failures in communication" are due to FUD, and how much is due to bad comms in the first place...

As someone who doesn't read outside perspectives on Matrix, but probably checks the Foundation blog once a month, I would say the latter. You've created a perfectly tolerable product, aside from some (admittedly unfortunate) edge cases. More or less everyone acknowledges that Matrix is, at the bare minimum, usable for individuals chatting, if not the best option right now.

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#24

Post by joshsimmons »

cobertos wrote: post #3

I've made some money making apps for others using Matrix and contributed a portion of my profits back to them Hope they can keep going, it is really useful technology.

Thank you for your work in the Matrix ecosystem, and for your support!

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#25

Post by joshsimmons »

ajdude wrote: post #13

I'm glad to see this roadmap addressed on the financial situation GitHub issue: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/571#issueco...

Thanks for noticing :) Doing my best to make sure everyone who is invested in these things gets the information they want and need.

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#26

Post by bluesomewhere »

Kurd wrote: post #4

I like matrix as much as anyone else around here, and I would like to see it survive and prosper. That being said, if over 60% of the annual “expenses” of your nonprofit goes to “management” covering the salaries of four people who have other full time jobs, you really need to do a better job at managing finances.

Thanks for your enthusiasm for Matrix! We're at a critical point in its evolution, but there's a lot of reason to be hopeful and excited about the future – and we'll be digging deeper into that in each of the following blog posts in the series.

I think the others have covered it pretty well, but just so you hear it from the source:

> if over 60% of the annual “expenses” of your nonprofit goes to “management” covering the salaries of four people who have other full time jobs,

That is an incorrect reading of the situation. The four full-timers who work for the Foundation do not have other jobs, so we are covering 100% of their salary. And that line item on the budget _also_ covers a bunch of part-timers, such as the SREs who keep the Matrix.org homeserver running.

If you have any other questions or concerns, I'm more than happy to speak to them :)

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#27

Post by joshsimmons »

caslon wrote: post #2

> Otherwise, we need to start scaling back programs and staff starting January 2025. They've already done so. 2023 saw a (rather extensive) wave of layoffs, and a reduction in scale. Part of the issue is that Matthew is not the best communicator, which isn't great for fundraising. That being said, Josh isn't off to a strong start, either. Somehow, neither of them managed to spin the Apache -> AGPL move for Synapse as…

Hey, thanks for sharing your concerns. I think we need to start right at square 0: Element is not the same as the Matrix.org Foundation, and the Foundation has not had layoffs or a reduction in scale.

We did EOL the public Libera.ChatMatrix bridge we were previously operating, while at the same time expanding our advocacy work to make sure we don't end up with legislators undermining their goals around safety by introducing backdoors or dangerous surveillance.

I'd _love_ to hear your questions and concerns, so that I can address them, but it is hard to address what you've currently written as it is all based on the premise that Element and the Foundation are one in the same.

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#28

Post by joshsimmons »

benatkin wrote: post #7

They open-cored Synapse. I guess Element needs money, so they're crowdfunding. It doesn't take long to see that the open protocol is pretty geared towards Synapse/Element. By the way this is out of date: https://matrix.org/ecosystem/servers/ It says Apache 2, but if you click it, it goes to an archived repository, and if you click the link in the README to the new repository, it's under AGPL. That would be community-…

Element != the Matrix.org Foundation. Element relicensed Synapse. The Foundation is running a fundraiser.

I'm a little confused about your comment "AGPL for me, but not for thee." Can you unpack that a bit? Synapse is available under an AGPL license for _everyone_.

Thanks for flagging the error on our website, I believe there's a PR currently in flight to fix that.

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#29

Post by unintendedcons »

SebastianKra wrote: post #15

I believe Matrix's Now-or-Never Moment has passed. My last attempt to use Matrox with a group ended in: - 3 users not receiving notifications on Android - 2 users regularly not being able to decrypt messages - No one being able to invite new contacts unless on Desktop At the same time, Element was working on probably the third app redesign, when the current one... was fine. These issues crop up, without fail, every t…

I had to choose a groupchat option for an event I run and the choice ended up being XMPP because the Matrix mobile apps we tried were all crashy. I wish everyone working on Matrix the very best, and will continue to run a demo for myself once a year.

Re: A roadmap and appeal for help from The Matrix.org Foundation

#30

Post by joshsimmons »

unintendedcons wrote: post #29
SebastianKra wrote: post #15

I believe Matrix's Now-or-Never Moment has passed. My last attempt to use Matrox with a group ended in: - 3 users not receiving notifications on Android - 2 users regularly not being able to decrypt messages - No one being able to invite new contacts unless on Desktop At the same time, Element was working on probably the third app redesign, when the current one... was fine. These issues crop up, without fail, every t…

I had to choose a groupchat option for an event I run and the choice ended up being XMPP because the Matrix mobile apps we tried were all crashy. I wish everyone working on Matrix the very best, and will continue to run a demo for myself once a year.

Thanks for continuing to give Matrix a try! There are rough edges, for sure. I'm excited to hear what you think the next time you give it a spin – your experience is valuable feedback for us.
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