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Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

wilwheaton.typepad.com

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Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#191

Post by brigade »

javajosh wrote: post #53

Google thinks it will die in the long run without social. They realize that all the tech-savvy software product in the world can be reproduced eventually, but secondary, human-savvy products, can never be reproduced. Furthermore, they see the power in adding ever more context to search - see Bret Victor's talk about how 'interaction' is bad, and inferring context is everything. There's no better context than social.…

> Also on the plus side, since Google insists on real identities on G+ then we can at least look forward to more civil comments on YouTube, which I think we all agree would be a net benefit.

Most of the time I see facebook comments on an external site (I don't use facebook personally), they're little better than the average youtube comment. It's amazing what kinds of mind-bogglingly stupid, racist, sexist, and inflammatory stuff people are perfectly happy to say with they real name and photo just off to the left.

Really, the only thing I see changing with a real identity policy on youtube is that if some of the kids posting such stuff grow up, they will no longer be able to shed their past comments.

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#192

Post by VikingCoder »

acqq wrote: post #190
VikingCoder wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> giving a +1 to a video that could possibly go on your Google+ wall (if that even exists) It does not exist. You can specifically Share a video with Circles. > influence your search results in ways you don't want, In the upper right on your Search page, you can click "Hide personal results." > or show up awkwardly in other strange ways while using other Google products like Gmail [citation needed] > The real problem…

Technically, "Anonymous Likes" aren't really susceptible to spamming, as through the years Google developed enormous infrastructure to avoid spamming in ad-clicks. The same technology can be easily used for "Anonymous Likes." The decision to eliminate "Anonymous Likes" is not a result of technical needs, it's a decision "from the above" to force a "more social" Google.

> Technically, "Anonymous Likes" aren't really susceptible to spamming

[Citation Needed]

Should content show up higher in Google Search Results, if it is more Liked? By whatever system of Likes you care to design... I say "yes."

That makes the "Anonymous Like" system a clear target for Search Engine Optimization.

People have to pay for ads. If it turns out that the Conversion numbers for a set of search words are lousy, then advertisers will give up on those words, and the price on those words will plummet. It's to Google's advantage to find GOOD ads, that users actually WANT to see. It's good for advertisers to only have their ads up if users WANT to see them. And it's good for users to only see ads that they WANT to see. The economy on ad words helps solve those problems.

For YouTube videos, Google knows how many people watch all the way through a video - which is one metric. They know how many times people start watching the video. They could know how many "Anonymous Likes" there are. And they can know how many +1s and Shares there are. The number of replays, too. How often people click on the video, when it shows up in search results.

Given all of that data, I assert that it's possible that Anonymous Likes have no technical value. The task: given all of the metrics, predict the likelihood that User B will enjoy watching a video. I think it's possible that Google / YouTube have determined that the number of Anonymous Likes has no statistical correlation to the likelihood that User B will enjoy watching the video. I think it's possible that the number of Anonymous Likes should have no bearing on the Rank of a video in Search Results.

Your assertion is that "The decision to eliminate 'Anonymous Likes' is not a result of technical needs". That's possible, but I think you're only speculating. Otherwise, [Citation Needed].

> it's a decision "from the above" to force a "more social" Google.

If I'm correct, that Anonymous Likes have no statistical correlation to whether User B will enjoy the video, then don't you think it's possible that having Google+ users, who are signed in, be able to +1 and Share a video might actually create BETTER RESULTS for users? Not just "more social," but more "ME" based on things I've liked, and based somewhat on the things the people in my Circles have liked?

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#193

Post by groby_b »

d503 wrote: post #124
moskie wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there's a third option, and it's the one Wheaton is complaining is no longer there. Instead of there being a way to "like" this thing on an external social network (like G+ or Facebook), what about just "liking" it on a system that exists only on the site itself (in this case, on YouTube)? Then after that, how about a system to Share the item? This doesn't really exist on the web, but the Sharing system on Androi…

Web Intents (which should be in Chrome soon, or maybe they're in already) should hopefully allow exactly that. http://webintents.org/ Latest news seems to be on G+: https://plus.google.com/u/0/116171619992010691739/posts

It's definitely in :)

Grab a Canary build, start playing with it right now.

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#194

Post by kwerty »

This newest change won't affect me too much because I wrote a Google Chrome extension to keep my YouTube and regular Google accounts separate. However, as the author suggests, content creators will not be so lucky.

Please try my extension if you're interested -

http://kwerty.com/YouTube-User-Guard/

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#195

Post by mattmanser »

RobAtticus wrote: post #57
mattmanser wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is not Google. Google is not YouTube. They just happen to own it. Google should start remembering that before YouTube gets myspaced. Which imo is looking increasingly likely. Vimeo is one competitor which seems to already be growing like crazy for example.

Man, people really like to make ridiculous predictions about which big site is going to be "the next Myspace." Youtube has DAYS worth of video uploaded every single minute. When people talk about online video they always mention Youtube, not Vimeo, not some other site. You really think that it looks increasingly likely that Youtube is going to somehow go under? Sorry but that's just bogus.

Go to any reddit video subreddit apart from comedy ones. All the 'classy' ones with high quality videos are vimeo dominated now. That's all changed in roughly a year. I know a video production company and their 'video of the week' are invariably vimeo videos now. Because all the cool indie filmmakers post there now instead of YouTube.

Youtube has lost their total dominance. Youtube is no longer the be all and end all of online video. Vimeo started off capturing business videos from youtube as they looked more professional, now they're capturing the indie filmmakers.

I said they need to be careful about not pushing YouTube into MySpace territory, not that they will. Nor did I say Vimeo are the next YouTube. You could see the video market fragment as it's not all or nothing as Social Networks are.

And who cares about the quantity that gets uploaded to YouTube, you know most of it's long tail junk. It's where the viewers go, not who has the most crappy video of their dog rolling around for a tasty treat.

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#196

Post by fear91 »

waqf wrote: post #170
cnbeuiwx wrote: post #140

Stop using Google! You know its a company that spies on your every move, you know they are selling your information to governments, you know they are constantly IN YOUR FACE everywhere you turn on the net these days. They are even worse than Microsoft was back in the days, when Google came along with a clean search engine and a clean slate. These days, "dont do evil" is as ridicolous as Obamas "Change!" campaign. Goo…

what are your references for: (i) selling your information to governments (emphasis added) (ii) strong supporter of CISPA?

Sending users detail to governments: http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/...

Google supportive of CISPA: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/report-google-...

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#197

Post by [deleted] »

fear91 wrote: post #196
waqf wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are your references for: (i) selling your information to governments (emphasis added) (ii) strong supporter of CISPA?

Sending users detail to governments: http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/... Google supportive of CISPA: http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/report-google-...

[deleted]

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#198

Post by te_chris »

jes5199 wrote: post #129

Youtube used to be a demilitarized zone in the social wars. Every social network uses Youtube as their default video provider, every cell phone OS has a Youtube app as the default video app. Google saying that Youtube is now, fundamentally, a G+ territory means that social video is no longer something we can take for granted; expect Facebook and Apple to jump ship, and Youtube is left with, what, only the loyal G+ us…

I hadn't thought about it like this but you're completely right. In fact I think this one of the best explanations about this that I've seen. The whole silo thing is becoming increasingly irritating.

Re: Google is making a huge and annoying mistake

#200

Post by zmmmmm »

gregable wrote: post #175
citricsquid wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if hackernews replaced upvoting with tweeting, that's what they're doing.

That's not quite correct. As far as I can tell, +1'ing things does not appear in your stream and won't appear in the streams of the folks who are following you. Sharing does, but not +1'ing. +1'ing does appear on your profile under the +1 tab if 1) someone navigates over there and 2) you have made that tab visible to that person (you can control who can see that tab). If someone visits the object that you +1'ed, then…

There's a major issue of clarity here though. It doesn't matter what really happens, if the user is unsure they'll opt for not doing it. The only thing I remember for sure about +1 was that Google made me hyper aware that my +1's were public. Which is why I almost never +1 anything except those that reflect well on me professionally (ie. it's about projecting an image of myself, nothing to do with what I actually like). Ironically a few weeks ago somebody +1's one of my Google Code projects and I was quite surprised that I couldn't find out who it was. It turns out that +1's are public but in a very confusing way. I suppose on that person's profile somewhere the +1 is visible, but I have no way to find it.
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