These suburbia homes are still pretty bad deal for the public. Lots of infrastructure cost come with them like car infrastructure etc.
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Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
31–40 of 74 posts
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#32My problem is whenever I've seen these numbers, they were completely baked.
"The total price tag for the entire home project was roughly $75,000, after rebates. But Tuttelman says it will pay for itself in about six years through energy cost savings."
The costs seem right. I've priced this. The savings are nonsense. I don't spend $75k in utility bills in six years.
"Other benefits include the stress savings of not having to guess when a furnace, which typically lasts about 15 years, is on its last legs."
My boiler is going strong after forty years, and the technician who looked at it last said this was typical and there's no reason to think it won't last another forty. I periodically need to replace a control board, which I should learn to do myself. In contrast, the system described -- with heat pumps, solar, and whatnot, has a lot more parts and things to go wrong.
I'm equally sceptical of the current direct environmental benefit. If I e.g. tossed out my gas-powered car and bought a Tesla, I'd have the environmental cost of manufacturing a Tesla. That would need to be lower than the environmental cost of the gas I'll use for the rest of the life of my car. I don't think it is.
There are reasons to buy this stuff (e.g. to support the green industry). That doesn't excuse the propaganda and the fake numbers.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a society, we've decided that we want lots of infrastructure including car infrastructure.
Yknow, in the US, I think it was more auto industry lobbying in the 20th century that led us to the whole “stroads” situation we have. People didn’t like having 3 lane roads right in their path to walk to the grocery store. The municipal solution was to ensure everyone needed to drive everywhere.
The car infrastructure you were referring to is more than just stroads and mandatory vehicle ownership. I know that's all your favorite youtubers talk about, but there are actually other aspects.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a society, we've decided that we want lots of infrastructure including car infrastructure.
Yknow, in the US, I think it was more auto industry lobbying in the 20th century that led us to the whole “stroads” situation we have. People didn’t like having 3 lane roads right in their path to walk to the grocery store. The municipal solution was to ensure everyone needed to drive everywhere.
I highly recommend everyone interested in local land use to attend planning board meetings regularly. Observe the work your planning board is doing, and if you don't like it, find some way to volunteer or actually be part of the planning board.
This is the only way to make these changes at the local level.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yknow, in the US, I think it was more auto industry lobbying in the 20th century that led us to the whole “stroads” situation we have. People didn’t like having 3 lane roads right in their path to walk to the grocery store. The municipal solution was to ensure everyone needed to drive everywhere.
The car infrastructure you were referring to is more than just stroads and mandatory vehicle ownership. I know that's all your favorite youtubers talk about, but there are actually other aspects.
Hey friend, how about instead of writing a comment that does nothing but sound condescending, you add something to the discussion.
What “more” are you talking about? I’m very interested in this.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#36I wish I had my own roof.
In the same position. There's very few 'green tech' options for apartment dwellers.
It all has the prerequisite of owning a large and very expensive home. You need significant space for a solar(+battery) installation. Or for a heat pump.
Charging an EV at home requires you to have a garage or driveway, and we all know that public chargers are going to do a massive bait+switch, hiking prices way up once companies running them have established local monopolies and demand has built up.
Even a bike or e-scooter can be a pain to own without secure storage space if you've got to carry it up/down stairs each time you want to use it.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#37To me, the obvious reason why solar would be a gamble is that I have no guarantee I’ll be living here in the same home five years - let alone twenty - from now and I can’t take it with me when/if I move.
If you don't think you will be living there in 5 years, you probably shouldn't have bought the place, as the up to 10% or more transaction costs will eat you alive.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#38These suburbia homes are still pretty bad deal for the public. Lots of infrastructure cost come with them like car infrastructure etc.
Yes, if we all lived in city-centre 'WFH pods' eating bug paste we could get infrastructure costs and environmental impact way down! Then we could breed more humans, and 'growth' continues! (for some definitions of 'growth') But while some (young) people are fine with super-dense urban living, not needing a car, and rarely leaving their city, many people place a very high value on space, peace+quiet, and the increase…
Interestingly, I’m not particularly young (approaching 40), and can’t stand living in the suburbs (where I moved, from a city, last year). I feel so completely trapped, unfree, and dependent on my car, it’s ridiculous. I’ll be eating a $40k+ loss on this house purchase to move back asap, and it will be worth it.
I find the ability to walk to my library or grocery store infinitely more freeing than having to buckle in to my car and drive to my destination. I like being able to hop on my bicycle and get out of the city, without having to navigate suburban style 45mph stroads. I like the actual peace and quiet as opposed to the leaf blower brigade firing up at 7am. This suburban lifestyle ain’t for me.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#3975,000 in savings over 6 years is $12,500 a year, which means this person's utility bills were over $1000 a month!? I know that my house is wildly inefficient and $300-$400 a month is the worst it gets with extreme weather. Talking with friends and family my bills are higher than normal, most are around $200 and less in the milder months. A quick search shows $469 being average us Utility bills and that includes wate…
> I know that my house is wildly inefficient and $300-$400 a month is the worst it gets with extreme weather.
I lived in a house for 4-5 years where it struggled to stay cool in the summer and the bills would get up to $300-$400 a month as well.
One year I had an HVAC guy out to clean my unit and I was asking him questions (which I did every year) and this was the first guy to tell me when he generally sees issues like that it's insulation related.
He climbed up into my attic and recommended I add more insulation. I did so and the relief was shocking.
Obviously I understand how insulation can help but what shocked me was just how large a difference more insulation helped in a house that already had insulation.
Lessson learned that many times us technical folks know but don't truly understand. Every other HVAC person had just said the unit was on the small side.
So you may take a look at the insulation in the house, even something as laying more insulation in your attic may help tremendously.
Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant
#40These suburbia homes are still pretty bad deal for the public. Lots of infrastructure cost come with them like car infrastructure etc.
Yes, if we all lived in city-centre 'WFH pods' eating bug paste we could get infrastructure costs and environmental impact way down! Then we could breed more humans, and 'growth' continues! (for some definitions of 'growth') But while some (young) people are fine with super-dense urban living, not needing a car, and rarely leaving their city, many people place a very high value on space, peace+quiet, and the increase…
Reductio ad absurdum, straw man, slippery slope, bad faith. C-C-C-Combo breaker!