I don't want anything your AI generates • Hacker News Board

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#191

Post by gremlinsinc » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 3:15 AM UTC

leetharris wrote: post #143

bee_rider wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what he feeds the AI. Maybe some nice concise bullet points, which are what you’d probably want. Maybe we’ll end up with dual layers of AI: one to expand out top-down requests, another to compress them to something efficient to read. We can also have engineers prompt the AI: write me a weekly status report on what I did. Here are my git commit logs and jira points. Emphasize (some topic). Then the owners can…

I read an article about this sometime last year. Basically AI is the exact opposite of compression. We take what should be a few bullet points, turn it into some overly wordy bullshit with AI, then the recipient uses AI to turn that wordy bullshit back into a few bullet points. And it costs a ton of compute to do this. Kind of insane. I hope society evolves to work smarter.

I think the compute is going to net zero eventually either through green energy or hopefully better technology, our brains are very efficient computers if we can build a computer that works like our brains, or figure out analog(light based) computers, etc we could maybe get 1000x the compute for the power of a flashlight.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#192

Post by gremlinsinc » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 3:16 AM UTC

nickthegreek wrote: post #103

hospitalJail wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My boss “writes” policies etc using ChatGPT. They’re generic, overly wordy and say nothing of original thought. Isnt this good for a workplace policy? Wife had to do something similar and I'm happy it was overfit. I don't want some creative policy book.

I find that it is just real wordy by default. I commonly tell ChatGPT to be succinct.

I love Bing chat especially for the graphics it creates but I hate how every message says I'm Bing and I can help you with that...I get it.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#193

Post by gremlinsinc » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 3:22 AM UTC

rain_iwakura wrote: post #60

I think the funny result of our ML work is that we essentially bringing the value of being online down and will eventually force people to interact IRL as costs of verifying these generations becomes too high. That is we are going back to pre-Internet era interactions. I agree with the author, but I also don't see lower usage of all this already meaningless human-produced content as inherently bad. The hope is dim, b…

Disney has this floor that moves when you do, ie you feel like you're walking but really you're walking in place.

We're very close to holodeck technology, ai generated scenes and what not. Ais right now are single agents or groups of single agents, if they become a hive mind they could create worlds that multiple users can experience the same thing from different view points, essentially lucid dreaming or the meta verse, I mocked Zuckerberg for his meta shit and hoped they'd be last to figure it out, but the open source models from Facebook seems to me to be how you speed up building a meta verse.

I don't know if there's 4d chess, but I do think we'd be progressing a lot slower if everything was closed source. I'm glad it's open, a little nervous what terrorists and despots might do with the same technological access though.

my point being, our outside might really be inside virtual worlds. We might even have real jobs there. Imagine if we can order some food dish and a real person prepares it virtually like they would in the real world and you have a replicator device actually make it for you... kinda creepy but possible I guess.

Ready player one, is about to be reality I think.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#194

Post by _gabe_ » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 4:52 AM UTC

rain_iwakura wrote: post #180

throwaway295729 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would YouTube or Netflix be a net negative?

I said YouTube isn't a net negative. Even then you have to think globally, what about children who grew up consuming AI generated abomination animations made with 0 oversight of even its greedy creators? Netflix was the cause for current slate of tax writeoff cancellations (no Netflix no overinvestment by Warner etc and no clumsy Zaslav cleanup), terrible shows being greenlit, homogeneity of camerawork, casting, iden…

> terrible shows being greenlit, homogeneity of camerawork, casting, identity-politics pandering that nobody asked for, oversaturation of the market with streaming services that is almost as bad as cable etc. … Binge-tv model is also not a good thing

None of this is unique to Netflix. Terrible shows have been greenlit since the dawn of television. Shows are incredibly homogenous because they’re largely produced by a select few people. If anything, Netflix has broken that homogeneity by allowing more indie film/tv creators to breakthrough (like squid game).

Casting and identity politics shenanigans are definitely not unique to Netflix and started way before Netflix started producing content. The oversaturation problem only became a problem when all the other networks wanted their own slice of the pie. It was actually great for awhile when Netflix was the only big player in town.

And finally, binge-tv has always been possible. My grandmother would sit in front of cable television sun-up to sun-down watching whatever was on. 24 hour marathons of mythbusters and other shows like that were very common. Reruns of all your favorite sitcoms play all night on all major cable channels. Bingeing isn’t a unique problem to Netflix. Netflix just allows you to do it with new shows instead of waiting arbitrary amounts of time.

Also, is binge-reading a novel unhealthy? I’ve had 8 hour reading sessions when I’m gripped by a great book, like the last book in the Wheel of Time series. If that’s acceptable, why isn’t watching a show for 8 hours acceptable? I don’t think the medium really has that much of a tangible effect. Now if you’re bingeing shows everyday, then it’s unhealthy. But once a quarter when a new show you like comes out? Idk, that seems fine to me.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#195

Post by acuozzo » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 5:15 AM UTC

gremlinsinc wrote: post #188

logicprog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that machine learning like large language models and image generating systems exploit labor might be up for debate, but the fact that they are disproportionately damaging to the environment compared to the alternatives is certainly true in the same way that it's true for Bitcoin mining. And there's more than just those two aspects to consider, it's also very much worth considering how the widespread use of s…

how's it more damaging to the environment of you can replace 1k people, that's 1k people staying at home instead of commuting, sure that causes pain if we can't figure out ubi or a way to house and feed the masses, also many of the biggest ai users are working to get their energy 100 percent from solar, wind, and geothermal. AI is something we've been heading towards since the dawn of man. Hell, ancient Rome had auto…

> I'm a bit of an accelerationist, rip the band-aid off kind of guy, everyone dies someday I guess

Are you volunteering to go first?

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#196

Post by rain_iwakura » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 6:04 AM UTC

_gabe_ wrote: post #194

rain_iwakura wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said YouTube isn't a net negative. Even then you have to think globally, what about children who grew up consuming AI generated abomination animations made with 0 oversight of even its greedy creators? Netflix was the cause for current slate of tax writeoff cancellations (no Netflix no overinvestment by Warner etc and no clumsy Zaslav cleanup), terrible shows being greenlit, homogeneity of camerawork, casting, iden…

> terrible shows being greenlit, homogeneity of camerawork, casting, identity-politics pandering that nobody asked for, oversaturation of the market with streaming services that is almost as bad as cable etc. … Binge-tv model is also not a good thing None of this is unique to Netflix. Terrible shows have been greenlit since the dawn of television. Shows are incredibly homogenous because they’re largely produced by a…

I'm not sure if you're joking about binge-ing but you have to be delusional to think that someone taping their favorite show on their own or waiting for it until it ends is nearly the same as dropping all episodes at the same time on principle for every show and only offering that as an option for a long time. building your whole UI around it and encouraging this behavior? The point about others jumping on the bandwagon can only happen if Netflix broke down the barrier and over-invested (by going into deep red) to justify accessibility, knowing full well they won't be able to keep up the steam indefinitely. I know you're trying to be smart here, and failing, but are books built to be binged? Do they know when your attention is dipping? Do books have such UI to do this? You can make same inane argument about doing math for 8 hours a day or something.

Also the scale at which Netflix was throwing money around was unprecedented, so much so that other tv shows and writers were making fun of it. That's like saying periods of good investment client are equivalent to a dot com crash or a housing bubble.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#197

Post by sfn42 » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 6:18 AM UTC

rain_iwakura wrote: post #196

_gabe_ wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> terrible shows being greenlit, homogeneity of camerawork, casting, identity-politics pandering that nobody asked for, oversaturation of the market with streaming services that is almost as bad as cable etc. … Binge-tv model is also not a good thing None of this is unique to Netflix. Terrible shows have been greenlit since the dawn of television. Shows are incredibly homogenous because they’re largely produced by a…

I'm not sure if you're joking about binge-ing but you have to be delusional to think that someone taping their favorite show on their own or waiting for it until it ends is nearly the same as dropping all episodes at the same time on principle for every show and only offering that as an option for a long time. building your whole UI around it and encouraging this behavior? The point about others jumping on the bandwa…

Man i really hate how people absolve themselves of responsibility like this. "It's not my fault I spent all weekend watching Netflix, it's their UI!"

No, it isn't. I love when they release full seasons at a time. I can watch them at whatever pace I please. If some degenerate can't control themselves that's their problem.

"But muh children" parent them. "But irresponsible parents" Netflix is probably the best case scenario there.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#198

Post by echelon » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 6:37 AM UTC

corytheboyd wrote: post #171

z7 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your take on this? Not an expert but I think some of these are (vaguely?) based on Studio Ghibli aesthetics: https://old.reddit.com/r/aiArt/comments/17zmx1n/unreleased_1...

They’re all static images, not very comparable to a complete production. I admit they look good, but animation is another thing completely. And music. And story.

I think story and narrative will be the hardest nut to crack. I like to think humans will always be interested and capable of driving at the top-down level.

Image, video, voice, and instrumental will be easy. But it's still going to require a human with very sophisticated understanding of narrative, theme, pacing, structure, etc. to draw these elements together in a pleasing, coherent, and artistic way.

I think voice and performance will still be human-driven by actors for some time, but that a much smaller cast of less-than-supermodel actors and actresses will be able to do everything themselves.

I'll show you current SOTA animation if you email or message me on Discord.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#199

Post by nicbou » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 8:56 AM UTC

leetharris wrote: post #143

bee_rider wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what he feeds the AI. Maybe some nice concise bullet points, which are what you’d probably want. Maybe we’ll end up with dual layers of AI: one to expand out top-down requests, another to compress them to something efficient to read. We can also have engineers prompt the AI: write me a weekly status report on what I did. Here are my git commit logs and jira points. Emphasize (some topic). Then the owners can…

I read an article about this sometime last year. Basically AI is the exact opposite of compression. We take what should be a few bullet points, turn it into some overly wordy bullshit with AI, then the recipient uses AI to turn that wordy bullshit back into a few bullet points. And it costs a ton of compute to do this. Kind of insane. I hope society evolves to work smarter.

I forgot who said it, but it’s rude to make something that takes less time to write than it takes to read. I think that it’s a nice line in the sand.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#200

Post by nicbou » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 8:59 AM UTC

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #117

laurencei wrote: post #40

> I don't want music recommendations from something that can't appreciate or understand music. Human recommendations will always be better. I find Spotify's "discover weekly" list to be generally pretty good. Sure, there are some songs I dont like, but there are often 3-4 great songs each week that get added to my regularly playlist. Its all good an well to say that human recommendations are better, but I'm not payin…

>there are often 3-4 great songs each week that get added to my regularly playlist. I'm earnestly uncertain that a system with near total access to your listening history producing 3-4 great songs per week from the corpus of all human musical endeavour can be considered a "good" effort. Particularly when the 3-4 recommendations are jammed into a 60 minute playlist of otherwise questionable quality.

It’s better than my effort at finding music, and it makes Mondays a little nicer. My goal isn’t to find the best music ever, but to find new and interesting music more easily.