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I don't want anything your AI generates

coryd.dev

111–120 of 345 posts

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#111
While arguing against the usefulness of ML models, the author of this piece is not thinking of two key concepts. 1) Supply and demand are linked. If the supply is cheap/plentiful enough, this opens up new demand for things that would have been prohibitively inaccessible before. To illustrate, imagine CPU chips were so cheap that they were essentially free, where the most expensive thing about them was shipping them. In that case, new demand might open up to begin using them to pave roadways or something. 2) There is knowledge and wisdom wrapped up in LLM's and recommendation systems that comes not from the computer program, but from the knowledge and wisdom of the crowds. This knowledge shouldn't be dismissed as useless out of hand just because it's in a computer.

The argument that computer generated art is worthless because "if you want custom art, pay an artist"-- this doesn't recognize basic facts about economics. In particular, supply and demand are related, they are almost the same thing. If the cost of free art is exceedingly low, this enables me to make custom art for things that I wouldn't even consider if the price or barrier to entry or time-to-generate were higher.

The author also points out:

> I don't want music recommendations from something that can't appreciate or understand music. Human recommendations will always be better.

While it may be true that humans understand music better than computers, the intelligence behind recommendation systems is actually not the computer programs themselves. It's the wisdom of the aggregation of many people, reflected in the numbers of the model. While talking with an expert curator about the next movie/series you should watch, or the next band you should discover would be nice, the truth is it's just not as practical or easy as firing up a computer recommendation system. While I could book an appointment with an expert music curator and go through a 2 hour interview process to find my perfect music tastes, a recommendation algorithm can still provide easy value for me.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want anything your statistics generate

Statistically, yeah, you do. Is it that there's numbers and forethought involved that turns you off, or the meta of it all?

(Sorry, it was meant to satirize the silly title, and in retrospect I should've added an "/s".)

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#114
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddy a few months is a little bit optimistic

You haven't seen what I've seen. :) There are a lot of groups running towards this goal and it's all going to land at once.

> You haven't seen what I've seen.

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion? ;)

In my experience in the current AI climate people are over-promising and under-delivering. So I am a bit skeptical regarding hints at undisclosed great progress. No offense meant.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#115
This is a pretty naive argument. People use AI to trivialize mundane tasks and make the more accessible.

> If you're having AI write your email, it probably wasn't that important.

There's plenty of situations where extra politeness and wordiness has a real measurable impact on the outcome of the communication even when the actual information you're trying to convey could be compressed into one sentence. AI can wrap your thought into an appropriate amount of polite meaningless bullshit solving a real-world problem. It can do it much faster and better than I can. Even when the recipient knows or suspects it was composed with the help of an AI, the rules of engagement and social contract has been uphold successfully.

Maybe this qualifies as "not important" in the mind of the author, but I'd argue that if the outcome of such emails can seriously affect your personal or professional life as it often does, it is important to me.

> I don't want music recommendations from something that can't appreciate or understand music. Human recommendations will always be better.

This is just plain demonstrably false. Humans recommend what they think you'd like based on an imperfect overly biased and incomplete simulation of you in their heads. AI doesn't give a fuck and recommends stuff similar to what it knows you like.

> The images it generates are, at best, a polished regression to the mean. If you want custom art, pay an artist.

Again, my mileage probably varies from the author here, but I have infinitely more scenarios where I don't want custom art but abundant and quick polished regression to the mean. AI can give it to me. It's silly to argue that it has no use.

I generally agree that AI often doesn't deliver what overly enthusiastic marketing claims it does, but it still can do amazing things that are of real use to a lot of people.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#116

I think the funny result of our ML work is that we essentially bringing the value of being online down and will eventually force people to interact IRL as costs of verifying these generations becomes too high. That is we are going back to pre-Internet era interactions. I agree with the author, but I also don't see lower usage of all this already meaningless human-produced content as inherently bad. The hope is dim, b…

I think you're underestimating the benefits of having social community online, I've found and made extremely close friends and even partners online and they have been utterly life-changing for me. I'm making/have made (I'm different cases) herculean efforts to be able to be with them in person permanently because obviously in person interaction is better, but being able to discover people that are so good for me and fit so well for me was made possible by the internet because such people are rare for the kind of person I am. I would not be nearly as well adjusted and happy in my life as I am without the close friends that I've made online. They mean a lot to me. I think the problem with the current online landscape, including polarization and the generation of meaningless content, has more to do with the specific form most online social spaces take, where it's this intensely public popularity contest, instead of something more like irc, where it's generally pretty private and ephemeral and limited to a small number of people. That and the rotten incentives that social media companies have to take advantage of their users.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#117

> I don't want music recommendations from something that can't appreciate or understand music. Human recommendations will always be better. I find Spotify's "discover weekly" list to be generally pretty good. Sure, there are some songs I dont like, but there are often 3-4 great songs each week that get added to my regularly playlist. Its all good an well to say that human recommendations are better, but I'm not payin…

>there are often 3-4 great songs each week that get added to my regularly playlist.

I'm earnestly uncertain that a system with near total access to your listening history producing 3-4 great songs per week from the corpus of all human musical endeavour can be considered a "good" effort. Particularly when the 3-4 recommendations are jammed into a 60 minute playlist of otherwise questionable quality.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#118
post #63

Author’s point about environmental cost is a frustration I share. Most people in the tech industry are at least somewhat concerned about the environment but their use and endorsements of technologies don’t follow at all: cloud technologies running in massive over-provisioned datacenters, LLMs consuming more energy than some countries, etc. It’s totally cool to strip mine the Earth, clear cut forests, and burn a bunch…

What consumes more energy in AI, training or inference?

It seems to me that training ought to be a super shift-able workload, a great fit for intermittent green energy sources.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#119

I'm not a fan of this hyper aggressive line-in-the-sand argumentation about AI that pushes it all precariously close to culture war shenanigans. If you don't like a new technology that is perfectly cool and your right to an opinion. Please don't position it so that if I want to use AI I have to defend myself from accusations of exploiting labor and the environment. That is NOT at all clear, settled, or even correct m…

> Please don't position it so that if I want to use AI I have to defend myself from accusations of exploiting labor and the environment.

You, personally, likely are not (apart from electricity use but that's iffy.) But the technology you want to use could not exist, and cannot continue to be improved, without those two things. That's not unclear in the slightest, that's just fact.

> I'm open to that conversation and debate, but diatribes like this make it far too black-and-white with "good" people and "bad" people.

I get that any person's natural response to feeling attacked to defend oneself. That's as natural as natural gets. But if shit tons of people are drawing the same line in the sand, no matter how ridiculous you might think it is, no matter how attacked you might feel, at some point, surely it's worth at least double checking that they don't actually have a point?

If I absolutely steel-man all the pro-AI arguments I have seen, it is, at the very best:

- Using shit tons of content as training data, be it written, visual, or audio/video, for a purpose it was not granted for by it's creators

- Reliant on labor in the developing world that is paid nearly nothing to categorize and filter reams upon reams of data, some of which is the unprocessed bile of some of the worst corners of the Internet imaginable

- Explicitly being created to displace other laborers in the developing and developed world for the financial advantage of people who are already rich

That is, at best, a socially corrosive if extremely cool technology. It stands to benefit people who already benefit everywhere, at the direct and measurable cost of people who are already being exploited.

I don't think you're a bad person for building whatever AI thing you are, for what it's worth. I think you're a person who probably sees cool new shit and wants to play with it, and who doesn't? That's how most of us got into this space. But as empathetic as I am to that, tons of people alongside you who are also championing this technology know exactly what they are doing, they know exactly who they are screwing over in the process, and they have said, to those people's faces, that they don't give a shit. That they will burn their ability to earn a living to the ground, to make themselves rich.

So if you're prepared to stand with them and join them in their quest to do just that, then I don't think anyone is obligated to assuage your feelings about it.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#120

I think the funny result of our ML work is that we essentially bringing the value of being online down and will eventually force people to interact IRL as costs of verifying these generations becomes too high. That is we are going back to pre-Internet era interactions. I agree with the author, but I also don't see lower usage of all this already meaningless human-produced content as inherently bad. The hope is dim, b…

Well said. > If nothing online can be trusted I think we're already pretty much there, except that it isn't just online. This is an all-media problem now. (I work in ML as well)

We were ever in a position to "trust" media?

To me the advantage of having the internet was to allow a range of people without prior permission, a large sum of money, or more free time than sense to start publishing.

It was all seemingly meant to expand the number of voices in the "media" and reduce the requirement to put your trust into any one outlet. We took a wrong turn somewhere.

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