Live data from Hacker News

Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

qz.com

91–100 of 107 posts

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#91
Was it curious but not learning?

If the AI learns, it will not watch TV forever, because most TV is predictable. There is the cop show, the lawyer show, the doctor show, the news, the family sitcom, etc etc. Eventually it would learn all these and find the TV less interesting - which is exactly what happens to many people.

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#92

The important counterweight to this phenomenon is the brain's adaptability to noise. Some ML researchers like to think that noise is not predictable because this follows from the classic CS definition of noise. However in reality the brain quickly adapts to any noisy sensory input, it begins to predict higher level characteristics of the noisy input and no longer reacts with surprise or interest. This happens at all…

I like the Bayesian Surprise definition for this. It's not about predicting the exact next state of the world (or the next frame of the noisy TV) but about how much the next state changes your model of the world.

https://papers.nips.cc/paper_files/paper/2005/hash/0172d289d...

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#93
post #31

This trait must serve us in some capacity. You see this with children and iPads. My kids know 3x what I did when I was their same age. It's as if something can finally fill their bandwidth, keep up with their thoughts, and answer those questions in real-time. No wonder they get angry when it's time to put away the iPad - they're engaged at a high level. Much like when I am programming on a sideproject and my focus is…

[deleted]

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#94
post #85
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The belief that adult brains can’t change after childhood has been debunked. There are dramatic changes in the first two years of life our brain never loses its ability to form new connections and most children with iPads are older than 2. Neuroplasticity as a concept is challenging but even when Torsten Wiesel was sewing kitten and cat eyes shut the adults could adapt. And the claims that the kittens rewired more ar…

An accessable cite for the above claim that neuroplasticity not existing in adults is a myth. https://solportal.ibe-unesco.org/articles/neuroplasticity-ho...

This feels like arguing against a straw man. I don't think anyone generally says that a brain can't change once you're an adult. If that were the case you wouldn't be able to learn anything at all. Clearly we all can learn as adults so there is neuroplasticity as adults.

The general argument that I hear which is true (from all I've seen and read) is that neuroplasticity is greatly reduced in adults as compared to children. There is a period in early childhood where brains are incredibly flexible and adaptable, and as they age they continuously lose that ability until the majority of it has been lost by adulthood.

It doesn't mean there is zero in adulthood, just that it is very small compared to childhood.

I think you're arguing against something nobody really says.

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#95
post #38

This reminds me of the murder bot book series by Martha Wells. The main character (an advanced ai robot) started really enjoying human media and even used media as a bargaining chip to work with other bots. One striking moment was when the main character was discussing a rogue and violent robot with a transport bot. “ART said, What does it want? To kill all the humans, I answered. I could feel ART metaphorically clut…

Human scientific curiosity isn't good for the test animals.

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#96
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's clearly a sweet spot in the amount of entropy/unpredictability that is "interesting". Otherwise observing white noise would be the most interesting thing imaginable. I don't know the details, but probably you would want to seek unpredictability in a higher level representation of the observed state. White noise is highly unpredictable per pixel, but will get a very predictable representation after a layer or…

I think there's a gap between the human version of curiosity and the AI version. A machine can be told that something is interesting, where humans need to innately find something interesting or spend a long time sort of learning to find something interesting. > White noise is highly unpredictable per pixel, but will get a very predictable representation after a layer or two of featurization if the features are traine…

> A machine can be told that something is interesting, where humans need to innately find something interesting or spend a long time sort of learning to find something interesting.

Humans seem to be the same way. Lots of people learn something because it pays well.

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#98
post #31

This trait must serve us in some capacity. You see this with children and iPads. My kids know 3x what I did when I was their same age. It's as if something can finally fill their bandwidth, keep up with their thoughts, and answer those questions in real-time. No wonder they get angry when it's time to put away the iPad - they're engaged at a high level. Much like when I am programming on a sideproject and my focus is…

> so that we can override their curiosity and say "OK, learn something else today." I'm not sure you even noticed the question you just presented: "what something?" If you can find a meaningful answer to that question, I suspect it will resolve your problem without help. As a rule of thumb, any solution that boils down to "stop" will be practically impossible to implement. A more tractable solution is usually along t…

Another competitor to YouTube with its own editorializing is missing the point. Especially if the only competition is around the feed. (Same as when some reader here was missing the point when asking for an editorialized feed for PeerTube videos.)

Focus should rather be on banning platforms. (They are digging their own graves with that editorializing anyway, since once they do that they become legally responsible for publishing what their users upload.) Only then you can start talking about only allowing open algorithms (so, no neural networks) on generalist search engines.

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#99

Using prediction error as the definition of curiosity rings hollow for me. Curiosity in my mind is more about mapping out an unexplored thing and not about being surprised.

It's not a complete definition for a number of reasons, but it's a crucial component of curiousity. If you're not surprised at any point in mapping out an unexplored thing, in what sense is it unexplored? There are pretty high odds you've never been to this exact page before: https://oeis.org/A000079 . But once you click on it, is there any remaining curiosity? It's an unexplored thing, in the sense that (I presume)…

When I go hiking I expect trees and hills. Despite the expectation, it's still novel / sublime finding a new vista or path

Re: Give AI curiosity, and it will watch TV forever (2018)

#100
post #31

This trait must serve us in some capacity. You see this with children and iPads. My kids know 3x what I did when I was their same age. It's as if something can finally fill their bandwidth, keep up with their thoughts, and answer those questions in real-time. No wonder they get angry when it's time to put away the iPad - they're engaged at a high level. Much like when I am programming on a sideproject and my focus is…

>My kids know 3x what I did when I was their same age.

This makes it sound like kids across the board are getting smarter and more knowledgeable. Then why are so many headlines saying the opposite? "U.S. reading and math scores drop to lowest level in decades" or "Children's IQs are getting lower, US study finds" etc etc. Even if it's clickbait, I'm not seeing any "kids are getting smarter" clickbait.

Post reply on HN