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XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

micahlerner.com

31–40 of 79 posts

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#31

Intuitively, the popularisation of FaaS feels inevitable as lower level technical challenges get solved and give way to abstractions like this. Who knows though what our stack will look like in 20 years.

Looking behind what I have seen since I started paying attention in the 1980's, as it looks today, resold under new marketing terms, resold by newly founded startups that are disrupting the ecosystem.

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#32
post #31

Intuitively, the popularisation of FaaS feels inevitable as lower level technical challenges get solved and give way to abstractions like this. Who knows though what our stack will look like in 20 years.

Looking behind what I have seen since I started paying attention in the 1980's, as it looks today, resold under new marketing terms, resold by newly founded startups that are disrupting the ecosystem.

I agree, FaaS is treading deep "CGI" territory, except there are a lot more resources available for nice to have operational overheads so people think it's largely different.

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#33
post #14

It's interesting to see the heavily growing demand graph. Is that because people want to adopt it, or is it being mandated or encouraged as "best practice" etc? I'm not implying that true organic demand wouldn't exist because it definitely might, but I have seen in practice where leadership encourages or even mandates usage of FaaS, so the numbers go up even though on a neutral field people wouldn't necessarily choos…

> It's interesting to see the heavily growing demand graph. Is that because people want to adopt it, or is it being mandated or encouraged as "best practice" etc? FaaS is well justified from the point of view of an infrastructure provider. You get far better utilization from your hardware with a tradeoff of a convoluted software architecture and development model. In theory you also get systems that are easier to man…

>FaaS is well justified from the point of view of an infrastructure provider.

What if you are both provider and user? Are the tradeoffs justified?

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#34
post #8

Inovation regarding FaaS comes from BigTechs. I wish we had more OpenSource FaaS solutions, albeit OpenFaas amazing achievements still lacks more robust ecosystem.

What would the point of self-hosted FaaS be? They lose their whole value proposition when you're paying for dedicated servers or when you don't have large numbers of servers.

The pendulum has swung (is swinging?) for many companies back to on-prem for cost savings. Self-hosted FAAS allows your developers to retain the abstraction over the compute platform (a step beyond what containers provide), and grants those running the physical infra significant flexibility in managing it. It's also arguably less complex than k8s for basically everyone, if your use case supports short-lived functions.

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#35
As a developer who worked at small to medium sized companies, mainly developing microservices running on Kubernetes, I don't see a big advantage using FaaS as a customer. Maybe I am missing something? I am sure the provider gets more utilization for the hardware, but for the customer what's the point?

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#36
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the point of self-hosted FaaS be? They lose their whole value proposition when you're paying for dedicated servers or when you don't have large numbers of servers.

Self-hosted FaaS is only worth it if you are at the same size as Meta. If smaller companies do this, it would be a big red flag for me.

It is literally "worth it" for companies much smaller than Meta due to the reduced infra management costs plus increased hardware utilization. A few hundred unique VMs is a boatload of work (even if you distribute it down to the dev teams), and most of those VMs will be sitting idle most of the time, just burning electricity to keep the RAM on.

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#37

As a developer who worked at small to medium sized companies, mainly developing microservices running on Kubernetes, I don't see a big advantage using FaaS as a customer. Maybe I am missing something? I am sure the provider gets more utilization for the hardware, but for the customer what's the point?

Isn't it that you don't have to set up and maintain a kubernetes cluster?

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#38

As a developer who worked at small to medium sized companies, mainly developing microservices running on Kubernetes, I don't see a big advantage using FaaS as a customer. Maybe I am missing something? I am sure the provider gets more utilization for the hardware, but for the customer what's the point?

Isn't it that you don't have to set up and maintain a kubernetes cluster?

Right, you just need a collection of XFaaS services, which need to be hosted somewhere... So you'll want some container orchestration tool, might as well use k8s.

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#39

As a developer who worked at small to medium sized companies, mainly developing microservices running on Kubernetes, I don't see a big advantage using FaaS as a customer. Maybe I am missing something? I am sure the provider gets more utilization for the hardware, but for the customer what's the point?

Most of the companies I've worked for or consulted with had some sort of background worker system for , usually with a queue in postgres/redis/rabbitMQ/kafka/whatever in between. It usually gets used for non-latency sensitive work like sending emails instead of doing that from the main request handler, so that the user gets their response without having to wait for the other stuff to be completed. Bigger companies sometimes have multiple groups of background workers, one for each service and each with their own queues, servers and autoscaling policies.

As I understand the XFaaS system from the article it functions a bit like a consolidated background worker system that any service can submit their work to and it will (try to) make sure it gets done in whatever SLO is specified. This is usually cheaper because now you can do low-urgency work from service B when there are urgent jobs from service A and vice versa, leading to higher average server usage. For small/medium businesses this is probably not something you'd want, since developing and operating such a system costs more than you save. But if you have a multi-million dollar bill for your background workers alone then it might be worth it.

Re: XFaaS: Hyperscale and Low Cost Serverless Functions at Meta

#40

As a developer who worked at small to medium sized companies, mainly developing microservices running on Kubernetes, I don't see a big advantage using FaaS as a customer. Maybe I am missing something? I am sure the provider gets more utilization for the hardware, but for the customer what's the point?

Isn't it that you don't have to set up and maintain a kubernetes cluster?

If setting up a Kubernetes cluster isn't a terrible overhead for us, switching to FaaS would mean we would have more control or less control? I am thinking mainly of migration to another provider.

Maybe we would benefit more if we would have large spikes in resource usage, but we don't.

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