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Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

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Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#121

Post by triyambakam »

shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote: post #29
triyambakam wrote: post #20

Keto just ignores the real issue - microbial (im)balance. It might help short-term (that's relative) , but it's not a fix for gut health. Humans are unspecialised frugivores. Our teeth be flat like for eat fruits and plants, not for tear meat. And our digestion system be long, cherry for fiber. Da kine sweet ono loa!

> Humans are unspecialised frugivores. While this is true for some ape species, it is not true for the human or our ancestors in the Homo genus. [1, 2]. > Our teeth be flat like for eat fruits and plants, not for tear meat. That is not true. Human teeth are specialized for an omnivore diet. > The best evidence that humans are omnivores comes from the teeth. Humans have short canines that are a functional consequence…

I'd really like to see a human try to tear raw flesh off an animal with their canines. I am highly skeptical that would work at all.

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#122

Post by tudorw »

cududa wrote: post #25
tudorw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get on pretty well with Huel, pro-tip, get used to the unflavoured unsweetened version, it's dull like porridge but not unpleasant, if you are going for every day, there's no flavour to get bored of. Also, while the idea of throwing a shot of espresso in there seems appealing and maybe a time saver, no...

How long have you done it for?

As a breakfast replacement, well over 12 months, I would not try it as a 100% food replacement.

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#123

Post by red-iron-pine »

2devnull wrote: post #114
kilmanio wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then aren't they by definition not at a calorie deficit?

You’ll eventually lower your caloric intake on a keto diet the same way most people over consume calories in a carb heavy diet. It’s just a side effect of decreased food cravings and the obstacles inherent to the diet. You get sick of avacado and coconut oil pretty quickly if it’s all you get to eat. Calorie counting is a fiction mostly.

> Calorie counting is a fiction mostly.

it works, but in short bursts.

maybe if you've got enough money for a professional cook and meal planner a la hollywood types or billionaires.

i could do it for ~3 months while cutting during my bodybuilding days, for example. no way i could do it for the next 50 years of my life.

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#124

Post by red-iron-pine »

watwut wrote: post #60
sigmoid10 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most prevalent eating disorder is still (unintentional) overeating. Not eating 2000+ extra calories of fast food every day has never put anyone in danger.

That wont kill you the way anorexia easily can. And fun fact: being slightly overweight is associated with best health results. The malnutrition from eating disorder really really sux and damages the body big time. > Not eating 2000+ extra calories of fast food every day has never put anyone in danger. Adolescents need 2500 or more daily, depending on gender activity level etc.

anorexia is a problem for a trivially small portion of the population.

being slightly overweight might be fine, but most of the population isn't "slightly" overweight, they're clinically obese and are fat as fuck. As in, like 60% or more of the population is full-on overweight. the rest of the world is catching up quickly, too.

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#125

Post by carom »

jdietrich wrote: post #80
wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez, chill out. You have zero proof & did zero research on this person, yet trying to put someone who down sees profound benefit with the good old: "it's just placebo". Just because there is no direct studies backing it up yet doesn't mean there isn't real effect. Could be keto, could be lack of certain starches or other foods, could be the focus & rhytm, whatever it is let's not discourage someone who is having a g…

>You have zero proof Proof of what? I fully accept that this guy finds keto really helpful and I have made no effort to dispute that. There is a world of difference between "a thing that some people find helpful" and "an evidence-based clinical intervention". >Just because there is no direct studies backing it up yet doesn't mean there isn't real effect. The entire point of my comment is that the chance of there bein…

It is actually not low. There are numerous studies on how cutting out gluten has positive health outcomes for schizophrenia, epilepsy, and autism. [1,2,3] Not to mention numerous anecdotes from diabetics about how going on keto got them to reduce or stop using insulin.

As someone who has allergies and a ton of symptoms that were alleviated by cutting out foods, it is really tiresome to hear that it is placebo or it is psychosomatic. Before I knew it was allergies and had the test in hand, I just had to grin and nod along when someone said my chronic sinus headaches were essentially make believe. Now I have a piece of paper that confirmed just about every food I had cut out or naturally avoided.

You are clearly not familiar with the research in this area. People dealing with mystery symptoms that are cleared up by cutting out certain foods will generally be. Maybe hold off on telling them it is placebo?

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6606425/

2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6586915/

3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747763/

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#126

Post by shzhdbi09gv8ioi »

triyambakam wrote: post #121
shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are unspecialised frugivores. While this is true for some ape species, it is not true for the human or our ancestors in the Homo genus. [1, 2]. > Our teeth be flat like for eat fruits and plants, not for tear meat. That is not true. Human teeth are specialized for an omnivore diet. > The best evidence that humans are omnivores comes from the teeth. Humans have short canines that are a functional consequence…

I'd really like to see a human try to tear raw flesh off an animal with their canines. I am highly skeptical that would work at all.

Me too. What gave you that impression it would be a reasonable interpretation of what I posted, or are you just trolling?

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#127

Post by m463 »

zczc wrote: post #78
m463 wrote: post #17

I've read the book "the glucose revolution" and it is pretty interesting how regulating glucose spikes can affect your mental clarity, energy levels and general health and wellbeing. When you eat carbs, your blood sugar rises. At first it fuels your muscles, then at some point your body has to release insulin to protect itself, keeping your blood sugar low using fat storage. Later, the blood sugar will crash, leading…

Interesting, the "hack" of eating in order is just return to the traditional way of eating veggie appetizer first, then meat main dish, and then dessert.

I guess it depends on tradition.

Some restaurants "traditionally" bring out bread or chips while you're waiting for the food (even the appetizers) to arrive.

And in most restaurants, many appetizers are not plant-based.

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#129

Post by gexla »

tarsinge wrote: post #101
gexla wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was on a keto phase, one day I noticed that I was so clear headed and energetic that I thought something broke inside me. It was like a persistent coffee kick without the side-effects. I realized that the feeling was probably how "normal" should feel. It changed my views about a lot of things. I would walk down the road and realize how many business fronts were restaurants, of which I had no desire to enter. I…

I have a similar story. I made major lifestyle change. But the thing is, I have got back to eating carbs and retained all the benefits (i.e. clear headless and energy all day long). Bear in mind by carbs I mean whole grain. But still, I wonder if macros are really the culprit and if keto is not placebo on top of something else (at least for me). Maybe it has something to do with insulin and glucose metabolism.

I couldn't say it was a placebo for me, because it was so unexpected I was concerned something was wrong with me. Imagine feeling massively better and thinking something is wrong with you. I also feel like I retained some of that feel since reverting, but that in itself might be a placebo. I'll need to get back on it to see if there's a change. But even if it is a placebo, I'm all for it.

Re: Patients say keto helps with mental illness. Science is racing to understand why

#130

Post by gexla »

wouldbecouldbe wrote: post #100
gexla wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was on a keto phase, one day I noticed that I was so clear headed and energetic that I thought something broke inside me. It was like a persistent coffee kick without the side-effects. I realized that the feeling was probably how "normal" should feel. It changed my views about a lot of things. I would walk down the road and realize how many business fronts were restaurants, of which I had no desire to enter. I…

It's same for fasting, your body wants clarity for you to be able to hunt & provide food. After a meal you rest & digest. Take Lions after a meal, even though we are different it's a common pattern.

Also interesting, I was always just a little hungry. Maybe this was my body telling me that I legit needed to get more to eat (or just more carbs.) It wasn't the same sort of hunger people normally associate with the feeling though. It was a low-key feeling that would only crop up when I would get into a distracted state. Like, I was okay if I was just bored. But if I'm stressing out about something, then I think about everything else I might want other than putting focus on the work.
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