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Intel's Humbling

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Re: Intel's Humbling

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was Apple's decision to put an 8-core i9 in an MBP chassis that was utterly incapable of dealing with the heat. Yes, the M1 is far more efficient and Apple deserves a lot of credit for it, but their last Intel laptops were much worse than they needed to be.

You can definitely point out some processor decisions that seemed poor in hindsight, but the fact is nothing in Intel's lineup at the time was any good for a laptop. Maybe they were worse than they needed to be, but the best they could have been with Intel would have still left so much to be desired.

> but the fact is nothing in Intel's lineup at the time was any good for a laptop.

Simply false brand-oriented thinking.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't call what Apple did innovation - they followed predictable development trajectories - more integration By this yardstick, nobody in semiconductors has ever innovated.

Well to be fair there is an awful lot of copying and extending in place.

> to be fair there is an awful lot of copying and extending in place

That's how technology proliferates. The point is if the M1 wasn't innovative, that rules out pretty much everything AMD, Intel and potentially even NVIDIA have done in the last three decades.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#83

Intel has truly been on a remarkable spree of extremely poor strategic decisions for the last 20 years or so. Missed the boat on mobile, missed the boat on GPUs and AI, focused too much on desktop, and now AMD and ARM-based chips are eating their lunch in the data centre area.

They still dominate PC’s and the server market.

I run all my workloads in AWS on armchips. It's half the cost for just as good of an experience on my side.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#84
post #42

Intel is a product of corporate cancer that is management consulting.

What does this even mean? (not sarcastic)

I worked at (American drink company in Japan) previously and saw what the poster may be referring to.

Management Consulting sells ideas, many of them silly or not important that are marketed and packaged as era-defining. A manager who implements #FASHIONABLE_IDEA can look forward to upwards mobility, while boring, realistic, business-focused ideas from people in the trenches usually get ignored (unless you want a lateral transfer to a similar job). hashtag-collection-of-ideas is much easier to explain when the time comes for the next step up.

This explains why you get insane things like Metaverse fashion shows that barely manage to look better than a liveleak beheading video. These sorts of things might seem like minor distractions, but getting these sorts of boondoggles up and running creates stress and drowns out other concerns. Once the idea is deployed, the success or failure of the idea is of minimal importance, it must be /made/ successful so that $important_person can get their next job.

These projects starve companies of morale, focus and resources. I recall the struggle for a ~USD $20k budget on a project to automate internal corporate systems, while some consultants received (much) more than 10 times that amount for a report that basically wound up in the bin.

Oddly, this sort of corporate supplication to management consultants worked out for me (personally). I was a dev who wound up as a manager and was able to deliver projects internally, while other decent project managers could not get budget and wound up looking worse for something that wasn't their fault.

I don't think any of the projects brought by management consultants really moved the needle in any meaningful way while I worked for any BigCos.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#85
post #65

Intel has truly been on a remarkable spree of extremely poor strategic decisions for the last 20 years or so. Missed the boat on mobile, missed the boat on GPUs and AI, focused too much on desktop, and now AMD and ARM-based chips are eating their lunch in the data centre area.

Xeon is not something people normally run on desktops. Datacenters were and still are full of monstrous Xeons, and for a good reason.

> Datacenters were and still are full of monstrous Xeons, and for a good reason.

To ask the foolish question, why? My guess would be power efficiency. I've only ever seen them in workstations, and in that use-case it was the number of cores that was the main advantage.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be 20 videos in this series: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=LTT+apple+cooli...

> The fact that the exact same laptop designs absolutely soared when an M1 was put in them with no changes tells you everything you need to know about how Intel dropped the ball.

Intel did screw up and get stuck on 14nm for far too long. But then does Apple deserve credit for TSMC's process advantage? AMD was never stuck in the way Intel was, and they have had the performance crown since for most kinds of workloads. I suppose Apple figured if they were going to switch chip vendors again it might as well be to themselves.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can definitely point out some processor decisions that seemed poor in hindsight, but the fact is nothing in Intel's lineup at the time was any good for a laptop. Maybe they were worse than they needed to be, but the best they could have been with Intel would have still left so much to be desired.

> but the fact is nothing in Intel's lineup at the time was any good for a laptop. Simply false brand-oriented thinking.

Why so defensive about Intel? I think you're the one doing the brand-oriented thinking here.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#88
post #5

Intel's 2010 7.6B$ purchase of mcafee was a sign that Intel doesn't know what its doing. In the CEO's words: The future of chips is security on the chip. I was like no, no its not! I wanted them to get into mobile and GPUs at the time. Nvdia's market cap was about 9B at the time. I know it would have been a larger pill to swallow, and likely had to bid a bit more than 9B, but I thought it was possible for Intel at th…

I remember when they did random stuff like the whole IoT push (frankly, their offerings made no sense to humble me .. Microsoft had a better IoT than Intel). They did drone crap .. gave a kick ass keynote at CES I recall .. also .. made little sense. Finally, the whole FPGA thing .. makes little sense. So much value being destroyed :(

I remember when they bought a smart glasses company then refunded every buyer ever the full retail price. There hasn’t been an Intel acquisition that has worked out in some 20 years now it seems. Just utterly unserious people.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well to be fair there is an awful lot of copying and extending in place.

> to be fair there is an awful lot of copying and extending in place That's how technology proliferates. The point is if the M1 wasn't innovative, that rules out pretty much everything AMD, Intel and potentially even NVIDIA have done in the last three decades.

Did they do anything in those three decades that hadn't been dreamt of and projected out sometime in the 60s? Architecturally, sure doesn't seem like it.

I'd say a lot more innovation happens on the process side. Manufacturing.

All the architecture changes look like things mainframes did decades ago.

Re: Intel's Humbling

#90
post #50

Everyone acts as though Intel should have seen everything coming. Where was AMD? Was AMD really competitive before Ryzen? Nope. Core 2 series blew them out of the water. Was ARM really competitive until recently? Nope. Intel crushed them. The problem for Intel is the inertia of laziness due to a lack of competition. I wouldn’t count them out just yet, however. The company’s first true swing at modern GPU was actually…

> Where was AMD?

Trying to breathe as Intel was pushing their head under water.

We saw AMD come back after their lawsuit against Intel got through and Intel had to stop paying everyone to not use AMD.

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