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Apple Vision Pro review

wsj.com

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Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#321

Post by pezezin »

dylan604 wrote: post #57
jsheard wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's even possible to get a fully immersive FOV in that form factor with the current SOTA optics, the few headsets which do have ultra-wide FOVs are enormous bricks. The widest FOV headset you can currently buy is the XTAL 3 at 180 degrees, and it's huge, despite being a PC-tethered design that doesn't need to make space for a SoC or battery. https://www.xtal.pro/product/xtal-3-mr We're a few breakthrou…

I always think back to the Nikkor 6mm fisheye lens[0] for example of what it takes to have 180° FOV. It's a lot of glass. [0] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=nikkor+6mm+f2.8+fisheye&iax=i...

That lens is even more impressive, it has a 210º FOV! Yes, it can see behind itself.

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#322

Post by npunt »

crooked-v wrote: post #269
npunt wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good review. Most interesting part was at 43:00 discussing the ergonomics and weight, which is the real question for everyone hoping to make this a daily driver. He said he could wear it 45 mins before needing to take it off, that it was overstimulating so you need to slow down how quickly you use apps and move things on screen, and that gestures also were fatiguing. You could tell he was trying to be fair but positi…

I've regularly done 2+ hours of light activity (e.g. mini golf, social hangouts) with my Quest 3 without issues, though I will note this is with a third-party head strap specifically designed to be way more ergonomic and comfortable than anything first-party from Meta or Apple [1]. [1]: https://www.bobovr.com/products/bobovr-m3-pro A lot of the physical downsides here are basically self-inflicted by companies trying…

Yeah industrial design and ergonomics tend not to have the same goals. Personally I was able to use a Quest 2 for ~1hr without too much issue, but it's not something I'd want to do on the regular.

The big product marketing question is what niche do headsets fit in, and thus whats the ideal single session and daily usage goal for a headset?

If it's about replacing laptops or another high usage scenario, that's a pretty high bar, definitely too high for the next 1-2yrs. I imagine some people at Apple wore dummy see-through goggle ergo tester units of varying weights around all day to get at these numbers :) Wonder what they came back with. Even still, that only gets at weight vs the perceptual ergonomics, skin-feel, etc.

The issue I see with headsets is that there may not be a lot of improvement possible without compromising durability or other factors necessary when going to market. E.g. what if they can't get it below ~400g (making AVP ~40% lighter), but to make the headset comfortable for most people for the usage scenario that makes them mass market (e.g. 2h+ sessions daily) requires ~250-300g?

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#323

Post by crtified »

oriolid wrote: post #113
willio58 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a few ideas that seem really interesting, just not at the price point Apple is offering. And honestly I'm just going to wait for these headsets to be smaller and lighter too before buying one. I don't think anyone at Apple is under the impression this device is going to be a money maker, but more of a gen-1 device to provide a place to start from for further work. - Learning instruments in a guitar-hero way…

> Learning instruments in a guitar-hero way (Piano, guitar, drums) What would VR add here? For guitar-hero style instrument learning, there are already Yousician, Simply Piano / Guitar, Gibson and Fender apps, and quite a few others.

> What would VR add here?

I'm imagining an AI VR tutor - heck, with some legal deepfake+AI style evolution, perhaps that tutor could actually be a famous player, talking to you.

The 3D view gives, well, a 3D view, and all the advantages it entails. For example, when you are with a physical real world teacher, you don't have a fixed view. You can observe from any angle, the teacher can observe and correct micro errors. And the senses of scale and proportion are intact, unlike viewing on a 2D screen of arbitrary size at arbitrary distance.

Even the simple POV of VR means that you get to see the techniques in-situ - e.g. seeing the expert's hands on your guitar, and how the technique is supposed to look from POV - rather than the standard teacher-student limitation of e.g. guitar, where the student sits opposite the teacher and sees a reversed image.

But to be clear, my vision of how this would be game changing relies upon a level of interplay between hardware and software that is not yet developed. But I expect it will be, in time, because virtualising real world experiences is arguably the core goal of VR, and (correct me if I'm wrong) but nothing in the music tuition world has yet proven superior to having an extremely skilled one-on-one mentor who can personally guide your every step, "in person" - and this is what VR would seek to achieve here.

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#324

Post by Wingy »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #318
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder given all this... what the expectations are at Apple from a higher up/board/executive standpoint are Most of Apple offerings are good: Watch iPad Mac iPhone services Are they really expecting this to just be a hard problem initially that they get better at over time? When is the last time they launched a "so so" product?

Tim Apple reportedly overrode the design team on launching it prematurely relative to their typical standards in order to enter the market and begin iterating before waiting too long. It’s the first new product category made under his leadership and he’s eyeing retirement, as context. Btw, don’t forget visionOS 2.0 is just 18 weeks away. (Source: WWDC is every June and every platform gets a version bump, as we saw wi…

The watch is a new product category under his leadership isn't it?

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#325

Post by sterlind »

joshspankit wrote: post #306
tunesmith wrote: post #7

One of the aspects of the device that has been under-realized is that when mirroring your desktop/laptop display to the AVP, you can't break out its applications into different areas. You can't pull them away from the desktop window. This is one of those things that Apple never claimed was supported, and yet there's something about that behavior that feels like such a natural intuitive implication to the technology t…

On Windows of all places (95ish to MEish) there was a remote tool called radmin and it had something that I wish companies had embraced: it hooked in to (maybe even before?) the window-rendering functions and sent the changes over the network. It’s hard to explain exactly what I mean because everyone is so used to streaming pictures of the screen over the network (if they even use remote access at all), but you could…

isn't that how Xorg remoting used to work as well? the display server and client are separate, so whether the pipe was local or remote didn't matter. In principle, Wayland could do it too, I think, if there were a way to synchronize texture handles (the Wayland protocol is also message-based, but IPCs GPU handles around instead of copying bitmaps.)

I guess one downfall is that that your pipe has to be lossless, and there's no way to recover from a broken pipe (unless you keep a shadow copy of the window state, and have a protocol for resynchronizing from that, and a way to ensure you don't get out of sync.)

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#326

Post by layer8 »

whycome wrote: post #180
jhatax wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This review from TheVerge answers some of your questions: https://www.theverge.com/24054862/apple-vision-pro-review-vr... I recommend the video review as well. Seeing the video call between Nilay, Joanna, and MKB shows how much the tech has advanced but also how much it still needs to evolve to be at the level of FaceTime Video.

> "Apple sent zeiss lens inserts for reading glasses, but I just used my soft contacts and it was fine." lol what kind of review says that. It would be like someone who doesn't even use any kind of vision correction saying "I just used it without glasses and it was fine." (edit: the review is actually quite good. but that line was bizarre)

Apple said that contact lenses might interfere with eye tracking (or maybe with the iris scanning). So it’s a data point if he says he had no problems with soft contacts.

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#327

Post by epolanski »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #314
zmmmmm wrote: post #276

Lots of surprises on the downside from all the reviews. Pass through much more limited in quality with motion blur, pixelation, distortions, limited color and dynamic range. The eye tracking driven input method which was seen as holy grail turns out to be annoying after a while because people don't naturally always look at what they want to click on. Personas straight up aren't ready. The lack of AR features is the b…

I wonder given all this... what the expectations are at Apple from a higher up/board/executive standpoint are Most of Apple offerings are good: Watch iPad Mac iPhone services Are they really expecting this to just be a hard problem initially that they get better at over time? When is the last time they launched a "so so" product?

The first two iWatches were borderline pointless/bad.

The first two iPhones weren't as innovative as they make them,just more polished than other symbians with cameras and internet, it took off with apps really in third iteration.

I think visionpro has lots of opportunities in the next iterations, early users will provide feedback this gen.

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#328

Post by deadbabe »

zmmmmm wrote: post #276

Lots of surprises on the downside from all the reviews. Pass through much more limited in quality with motion blur, pixelation, distortions, limited color and dynamic range. The eye tracking driven input method which was seen as holy grail turns out to be annoying after a while because people don't naturally always look at what they want to click on. Personas straight up aren't ready. The lack of AR features is the b…

It’s my understanding that eye tracking isn’t great as an input method, it should be used more for stuff like rendering or NPC interactions.

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#329

Post by skeaker »

threeseed wrote: post #303
aloer wrote: post #132

It is interesting how many here are excited about this for productive computer work. It’s also what Apple advertises with. But what is the account situation like? For years I’ve been complaining that I can’t easily use my private iPad with my company Mac because they have separate Apple IDs. Things like sidecar for a quick virtual whiteboard are basically impossible. AirPods have gotten better over the years where to…

> But what is the account situation like? These devices are going to have your sweat, makeup, odours etc on them. So you're really not going to want to share a device with anyone else.

Sure you will. Plenty of families share a single VR headset.

Re: Apple Vision Pro review

#330

Post by cortexa4 »

One of the most mind-blowing use cases of spatial computing was using the Vision Pro while cooking. You could create timers for different activities and place them in the locality of the object that you are tracking. This way you can track the recipe throughout its different stages with these virtual timers over different pots, pans, ovens etc.
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