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CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

forbes.com

291–300 of 345 posts

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#291

So research is finally coming to the same conclusion that a lot of people, myself included came to over a year ago. Well managed companies don't care where you work, it simply doesn't matter. The problem is that management is a lot harder than many thought, but you could sort of hide the fact that you're bad at it when everyone is at the office. There simply isn't enough talented managers around. We're not solving th…

Yes. We should not blame the one who actually performs bad. We should blame someone else, for example, his manager or the company CEO.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an advice column in the Washington Post a couple weeks ago [1] in which the person writing in was asking for advice about implementing RTO mandates. They work for a non-profit and found it hard to manage people remotely. Their complaints were: > 1. They have daily check-in meetings with everyone on the team to make up for the lack of impromptu chats in the office > 2. Collaboration is harder over email than in…

> 2. Stop using email. It's the worst format of online communication. Slack, MS Teams, etc. The difficulty with this, is that work can spiral quickly into just spending the whole day responding to chat (slack/teams/etc) and no one ever gets any actual work done.

In large organizations I always see the same bad outcomes.

1. Lots of random DMs/Group DMs. Everything is messy, and gets lost easily. The 'closed' nature of DMs and small groups then often builds up cliques and creates office politics.

2. Move everything into open channels -> descend into pure chaos with 1,000s of channels that no one can keep up with.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#293
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mangement had several years to collect data. Maybe they checked the numbers and found that, yes, people on average are less productive when working from home. Is that surprising or unexpected somehow?

Chances that they have actually gathered data are infinitesimally low. Now, CEOs following fashion trends, OTOH...

> following fashion trends

The older I get, the more often I see cargo cults.

Have they always been there and I just didn't notice?

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My office is filled with distractions. I sit in open space with tens of people around me. They talk, drink coffee, eat food. Some of them also have pets.

I used to sit near a printer which brought footfall, conversation noise and printer noise all day long. Good riddance to being stuck in an office.

I can't imagine anything that smells like toner is healthy to breathe.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Maybe because I'm an intern at a big CA based tech company right now that's been pro WFH, but my timesheet will specify the regular and unpaid hours. It even puts the unpaid into a lunch category. But then again, my internship feels like a job and I'm a bit confused. I do all the work with no direction, just report to my manager weekly and no training. Every internship I've had just feels like every job…

That's not a sign of a good internship program. I've always put a great deal of time coming up with projects that are suitable for the intern, and they always have to be tailored to the individual skill-set after the process. At the end of it we either have something that worked, and we have a good sense of the capabilities and fit with the team dynamic. I would ensure that you have someone to talk to who can discuss…

> That's not a sign of a good internship program.

I don't think you're wrong, but my situation appears to be the norm when talking with others[0]. All but one internship I've had is like this and honestly I don't think I can adequately say I've gotten training, be it internship (excluding the one) or job (I worked prior to grad school). I've simply concluded that training is a thing of the past, or it is expected to be self-driven, and performed outside work. (Personally I do not think this is an intelligent move, but these companies are quite successful and I'm not even a millionaire, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

> How are you doing compared to peers or other interns, etc.

Hard to say, as I'm not sure who would be an adequate peer. If you are to ask me personally compared to my expectations, I would say below expectations. In part there is a lack of the adequate resources I need to do the job (I work in generative ML but I'm trying to not dox myself so I can be honest and I want to hear your advice), there is more complexity than I expected and no one to really bounce ideas off of or whom can offer advice, and I'll be honest that my motivation is nowhere near where it was when I started, so I'll admit that I could do better. But I do want to say that I am still learning a lot during this time, getting work done (my manager seems happy, I've had no complaints, and its the second job I've had where someone says "well done" more than once in a blue moon. It's been extended twice now, so its a decent signal that they're happy with my work), and having a reasonable wage does reduce a significant amount of stress. So I don't want this to come off as depressed doom and gloom, it's more that the conversation is around critiques rather than highlighting the good or benefits. I'm generally happy about the opportunity but it is clear that my experience(s) does not fit the common expectation of this title and that there is room for improvement (both me and them). But if critiques aren't acknowledged, how then can I improve? (I am looking for other teams who may offer a better fit, as that might just be it)

[0] There is a gap that I do notice though. It appears that this is not the norm for those who obtain internships that are more prestigious or the highly sought after ones. But I am not at a top 10 school and that appears to be one of the stronger variables of correlation (more so than understanding, as I do talk and collaborate with people from those institutions so I think I have a decent gauge on at least intellectual capabilities. There are, of course, people who stand out, but most seem no different). Connections appear to be a key part of getting internships and undoubtedly this is an opportunity feedback system. You take what you can get. I'm a bit surprised others do not exploit this, as it reasons that you could get top talent by creating top talent, but that's an entirely different conversation.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#296

Is it possible for someone to 1. Be a really good 'in person' manager (able to foster a good in-office culture, motivate and coach people effectively in real time). 2. Be a really bad 'remote' manager. Not saying RTO mandates are a good idea, but to say it's masking poor management as a black and white statement lacks nuance.

But isn't it management's inability to adapt to remote work signal that management's experience is poor? I get that we love to categorize argue about RTO vs no RTO but I think the real topic is how companies/organizations are deciding on which model to commit to and why -- the "why" helps with communicating and convincing adults to do something like commuting (management is hard work, right?).

I get that a contrarian stance can come up with an example to contradict what the article is trying to convey. However, I think the article more so tries to draw situations in which CEO/Management is failing generally (with WebMD) and is hoping that a forced in office environment would solve their management woes.

I do believe that a majority of organizations are in this bucket rather than the one you claimed.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not so clear cut. If I stay at my RTO job for a few more years, I can probably retire at 35-40, versus taking a pay cut and retiring sometime in my late 50s. I’d say that’s worth the commute.

No, it's not. Just think about your stress levels commuting, people infecting you with all kinds of diseases at work that lower your quality of life and have the chance to impair you to a great extend.

My commute isn’t your commute, and you can’t make blanket statements like that.

My stress level while commuting is basically zero. Tbh the commute makes me less stressed because it’s a nice time to listen to audio books and provides a physical barrier to “transition” into work mode. I dislike RTO for other reasons, but my stress level was higher while WFH than it is from commuting.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tools are needed for better remote management?

One thing I've never seen work well is on boarding grads with no work experience. During COVID I onboarded a few grads into my team (for context we managed paid media for a SaaS company). We had a good track record of bringing in grads and training them on the job, but the cohort that came in during COVID had a terrible experience, and despite our efforts I'm not sure we ever really provided a good onboarding experie…

We successfully onboarded a few grads and interns these last three years and all are productive team members today with a clear path for career progression as well. Some of them were already promoted to positions with more responsibility.

I always see these arguments and understand it can be hard. It can also not be hard and work well.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#299
post #13

does anyone really find RTO surprising? I know several people personally who just blatantly don't work. it's more obvious in roles where the work is less quantifiable, but even in engineering roles everyone hears stories the alternative seems to be aggressively metricize and cut-- but that seems bad for different reasons

That sounds like a problem with the engineering team's roadmap/work: if an individual who doesn't do work and doesn't impact the team's goals, then how is that a problem with the individual? Maybe there needs to be a more concrete or interesting (non BS work) roadmap.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#300
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not so clear cut. If I stay at my RTO job for a few more years, I can probably retire at 35-40, versus taking a pay cut and retiring sometime in my late 50s. I’d say that’s worth the commute.

I guess it depends on what you find fulfilling. Having new and interesting experiences in your 20s and 30s can have a pretty different effect on your life than leasure time in your 40s+. In my experience there is minimal overlap between people who maximized working hours in their younger years and have an exciting life outside of work later on. But I'm sure that's partly a reflection on my social circle and everyone…

100% agree, but I don’t think a work commute will be the deciding factor in that. If I wasn’t commuting, I’d just be logging into work earlier, or maybe waking up later. It’s not like I’d be using the extra 30 minutes each morning to go adventure in the mountains.

Commuting doesn’t necessarily mean working long hours and missing out on the rest of life. I still only work 35-40 hours, I just sit in my car for 30-45 minutes each day. I definitely wish I didn’t, but for the pay I get (and the pay cut I’d take for taking a remote role), the 30-45 minutes is worth it at least temporarily.

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