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CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

forbes.com

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Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#271

Post by datadrivenangel »

zdragnar wrote: post #187
StableAlkyne wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just do their jobs and risk the pip Absolutely bonkers that doing the job you were hired to do can get you canned

When I interviewed roughly 10 years ago, I asked every person I met on the team roughly how many hours a week they worked. Every single person deflected and answered a question I hadn't actually asked. For that team at least, the job you were hired to do was to get results. I imagine OP was referring to people simply putting time on the clock and being just present enough to avoid notice, without actually caring whet…

The issue is that the expected results are often unrealistic, demanding significant amounts of effort & time to meet.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#272

Post by DiggyJohnson »

_teyd wrote: post #255
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not at all my experience. I was and am much more productive in the office, and it has a lot to do with changing my environment to a place of work. In order of my productive environments: the office (decent private cubicles, not open concept) > coffeeshop > table at the park > home office. Why is it so hard to believe that people like me exist? And no, it's not because I like to bug my coworkers or that I haven…

You could always go to the office by yourself (or a coworking spot, or really anywhere) if the point is just changing your environment and you don’t need to bug others. Everyone gets to be happy and productive, no mandatory RTO needed.

That is what I do. But we'll lose the office or downsize if enough people commit to hybrid or WFH, and I'd probably have look for another job with a firm that has committed to RTO.

I'm hoping these things self-select to a happy equilibrium. I'll fill in the folks that left due to RTO, and they can fill in for my company that has a hard time finding talent in a 2nd or 3rd tier city?

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#273

Post by godelski »

un1xl0ser wrote: post #254
godelski wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Maybe because I'm an intern at a big CA based tech company right now that's been pro WFH, but my timesheet will specify the regular and unpaid hours. It even puts the unpaid into a lunch category. But then again, my internship feels like a job and I'm a bit confused. I do all the work with no direction, just report to my manager weekly and no training. Every internship I've had just feels like every job…

You may actually be hourly and not salaried. That said, it's not uncommon to be forced to log when you work, especially when there are PTO and things like that involved and that need to be accounted for. Are you paid for the hours you work in the internship? If so then you are not an exempt salaried employee.

Pretty sure I'm technically hourly but clearly not for any practical purposes. I'm not allowed to place additional hours, even if I worked them. My work has unlimited PTO fwiw.

Though I've also worked full time salaried jobs and also been always required to fill out a timesheet. Often being told that it doesn't matter and the manager just saying they fill out a standard block at the beginning of each week. This is really what I've done at every job.

But I do want to make clear that I've had salaried positions in the past and not been given such offers. I am also not aware of any person that I know (offline) who has a paid lunch period and this includes many people in many sectors mostly in the west coast. This even includes my now retired parents.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#274

Post by RecycledEle »

crowcroft wrote: post #26

Is it possible for someone to 1. Be a really good 'in person' manager (able to foster a good in-office culture, motivate and coach people effectively in real time). 2. Be a really bad 'remote' manager. Not saying RTO mandates are a good idea, but to say it's masking poor management as a black and white statement lacks nuance.

Based on my experience teaching, yes. It is entirely possible for someone to be great in-person amd horrible remote.

Skills do not automatically transfer. It takes work and guidance to have your skills transfer.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#275

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #215
luch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a videoconfering system that is reliable and easy to use is essential to remote management. You need to have as little friction as possible to propose a 1-1 or a 15 min roundtable to quickly brainstorm something orally. Then you need remote "telemetry", meaning access either to chat messages, email, tickets, etc. and a way to process it at scale (without reading everything) in order to defuse sticky situations based…

Are you proposing that my management should be able to see my chat messages and email ad hoc and without approval or assistance from IT, legal, or their management? That seems bonkers to me.

Bonkers or no, that is a current legal reality if you're talking about chat or email messages which are sent and received using employer-provided means. If an email address ends in your employer's domain, it's not your email account unless you're self-employed.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#276

Post by lowbloodsugar »

CBarkleyU wrote: post #153
Ray20 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why dont I steal when I have the opportunity? Dunno maybe because I'm a decent human being? Why do you feel like you would steal from the company if given the opportunity?

This. OP is probably a manager, and managers are often psychopaths who would absolutely steal if they could get away with it. Thus they assume that everyone else would steal if they could get away with it, and so WFH must not be allowed, because everyone will be slacking off and playing CoD.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#277

Post by lolinder »

Joeboy wrote: post #199
hosteur wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, impossible to say without context. But maybe it is more interesting what you should do afterwards. What did you do afterward?

The project came to an end (hence me having to wrap up their work), so I didn't do much. I'm on a new project now, but I have the same question. If someone keeps insisting their work is coming along great and they'll be checking it in real soon, how do I know if it's true?

> their work is coming along great and they'll be checking it in real soon

This is the process problem in my mind. Why are they working on something that goes weeks without checking in code? They should have smaller actionable chunks that can be checked in at least once a week.

More importantly, take that same employee and put them in an office and do you really think things are going to be different? Alt tab is a thing, looking busy is a thing, and if you're entirely relying on their word that things are going well then you're going to get yourself in trouble regardless of whether you're in an office or remote.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#278

Post by lolinder »

Joeboy wrote: post #261
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry about your Christmas, but that seems like a poor reason to never give the benefit of the doubt going forwards. Situations are situational.

> Situations are situational Indeed. I suspect a lot of people here work in situations where there's slack in the system and nothing particularly bad happens if the work doesn't get done.

Yeah, no. We have tight deadlines that we're expected to hit and clear milestones for reaching those deadlines. If we miss them hundreds of people throughout the organization will know and ask why, and multi-million dollar sales contracts go out the window.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#279

Post by zerkten »

luch wrote: post #89
melenaboija wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tools are needed for better remote management?

a videoconfering system that is reliable and easy to use is essential to remote management. You need to have as little friction as possible to propose a 1-1 or a 15 min roundtable to quickly brainstorm something orally. Then you need remote "telemetry", meaning access either to chat messages, email, tickets, etc. and a way to process it at scale (without reading everything) in order to defuse sticky situations based…

>> Then you need remote "telemetry", meaning access either to chat messages, email, tickets, etc. and a way to process it at scale (without reading everything) in order to defuse sticky situations based on partial infos or misunderstandings.

How is that specific to remote work? People in the same building have the same misunderstandings with the same tools. The way to fix it doesn't involve management spying on the communications and attempting to decipher them.

Re: CEOs Are Using Return to Office Mandates to Mask Poor Management

#280

Post by zerkten »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #215
luch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a videoconfering system that is reliable and easy to use is essential to remote management. You need to have as little friction as possible to propose a 1-1 or a 15 min roundtable to quickly brainstorm something orally. Then you need remote "telemetry", meaning access either to chat messages, email, tickets, etc. and a way to process it at scale (without reading everything) in order to defuse sticky situations based…

Are you proposing that my management should be able to see my chat messages and email ad hoc and without approval or assistance from IT, legal, or their management? That seems bonkers to me.

I can't reply to the reply to this comment, but you raise a key point. While employers control the data, they don't use it like people seem to assume. Managers are not managing if they attempt to resolve conflicts by attempting to decipher private conversations.

There are many ways to resolve these problems without resorting to spying on messages. In an in-person situation with a conflict, there may be no record. We know methods to resolve these conflicts, so I don't understand why people go immediately to "employers control the data so they can just use it."

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