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A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

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Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#91
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been some high profile cases of people standing up to similar scams, including Bezos. It (standing up to bullies - edit: extortionists is a better characterization than bully) is commendable behvaior and needs to be better publicized as such, hopefully it will make some people feel more comfortable doing the same.

Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies. We're teaching our kids to be helpless. The only option we give them is to appeal to authority and it absolutely fucks them over when they're involved in a situation because of their own choices.

I agree.

"Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies."

So it's not really the standing up part but the policy that gets them expelled.

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#92

“If I have a party on my property, and I invite everybody on there, I’m responsible for what happens on my property,” Guffey told CNN. “And for some reason, we treat these digital companies different. These companies hide behind section 230 and say they’re not responsible.” There is a middle ground. If you are just a platform or software, then I don't think you should be liable. I don't think Discourse should be liab…

> The family began piecing together Gavin’s last moments and discovered he had encountered a scammer on Instagram and unwittingly became a victim of sexual extortion, a crime the FBI warns is increasingly targeting underage boys and leading to an alarming increase in suicides nationwide.

Meta shouldn't be liable for this. The sexual exploitation scammers should be.

Meta and other platforms of a certain MAU threshold should implement standardized protections and work with law enforcement to stop this type of activity.

This is the correct response:

> Since then, Guffey has been outspoken about his son’s death and sponsored legislation last year that makes sexual extortion an aggravated felony punishable by years in prison if the victim is a minor or vulnerable adult or if the victim suffers bodily injury or death directly related to the crime.

While we need to have strong protections for free speech, anyone who knowingly coerces or bullies someone in a sexually exploitative way or in a way that they know could lead to suicide should be held accountable to an extent. If there is money or blackmail involved, then the penalties should increase dramatically.

I recall the many cases of the Kiwi Forums website bullying folks into committing suicide. They know what they're doing is wrong. While it might not be blackmail, this is a form of free speech that can kill people and we need to have a frank discussion about it. Even if we don't legislate it, we need to create social awareness and a safety net for folks. Suicide resulting from this is a wanton and needless tragedy.

> Between October 2021 and March 2023, federal officials received more than 13,000 reports of online financial sextortion of minors, which led to at least 20 suicides, the FBI said last week.

Parents also need to educate their children about this and let them know they're safe, loved, and that there is no shame in living life.

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#93
post #2

Maybe if we weren't so puritanical, this would be less of an issue. So you have a picture of my junk? Ok... nobody wants it and it isn't worth anything. Should I be embarrassed that I have something 50% of other humans have? It'd be interesting to see the differences int his sort of crime in more open cultures.

I don't want to make light of the situation, a teenager committing suicide is a horrible, avoidable tragedy.

Your comment reminds me of the first time I received the phishing scam where the email claims that your computer was hacked and that the hacker has a video of you pleasuring yourself that they will allegedly send to all of your contacts if you don't pay them money.

After immediately recognizing that it was a phish, my second thought was "I value that money way more than I value my dignity ... so even if this were legit ... sorry grandma!"

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#94

It seems that Instagram in particular has a major problem with scamming. It would be safer to have teens consume all of these services as read-only, using an alternative front-end.

I've been saying this for a long time. Kids under a certain age should have read-only access to the internet in general. They don't need access to make posts, youtube comments, or on Instagram. I really think this is the solution.

If they want to socialize, go outside. The internet is not a toy it's a different dimension of life. The problem with here is it's still a pretty wild west and we don't have enough guards to prevent crime. You wouldn't let your kid walk around Philly's Kensington Ave without you and you sure as hell wouldn't let them walk around talking to everyone there... so why do we let them on platforms that are filled with the same or worse? Sure IG can be harmless but it's also a quick search away from whatever content they can (or can't) imagine.

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#95

This story is absolutely horrible. I feel so bad for that kid's parents. I had no idea this kinda thing was happening to dudes; I thought it was all teen girls being tricked into sending nudes, and then being extorted. I don't know what the solution is here. However, every time I think on it, I keep coming back to parent and personal responsibility, which sounds like victim blaming. I kinda hate myself for that, but…

I think Robin Williams said it best with "God gave men a brain and a penis, but only enough blood to operate one at a time". I don't think that "never send nudes to anyone" is going to work.

The core problem as I see it is that platforms like Instagram connect every person on the internet to every other person on the internet. Turns out that some of these people are a tad unscrupulous. Limiting this, especially for children and teens, seems like a good first step. Last week Instagram announced you can only send DMs to under-19s if they're following you, which is an okay-ish first step (and the absolute minimum they could do).

But it's also not only about these types of extortions, for example from [1]:

> “Two weeks ago my daughter, 16, and an experimenting creator on Instagram, made a post about cars, and someone commented ‘Get back to the kitchen.’ It was deeply upsetting to her,” he wrote. “At the same time the comment is far from being policy violating, and our tools of blocking or deleting mean that this person will go to other profiles and continue to spread misogyny. I don’t think policy/reporting or having more content review are the solutions.”

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/07/meta-face...

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#96

I hope this will encourage the lawmaker to ask more of law enforcement. It's their job to track this down. I'm sure Instagram would comply with whatever warrants were issued to them, even ones I'd personally prefer they not. It's unfortunate that it took this happening to a congresscritter, in their privilege of perfect law enforcement preference, otherwise blind to how LEOs aren't doing their job, to do something .…

So they track this down to some guy in Russia. Then what? Tracking down these types of criminals is probably the least effective things law enforcement could be doing because it's quite time-consuming and a lot of the time it gives you no concrete result.

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#97

Surely the real problem here, to my non-American eyes, is having easy access to a firearm, no?

This is a yes-and situation (that is, the issues are orthogonal). There are several similar stories where firearms access is not a factor (Amanda Todd is one of the most well-known, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Amanda_Todd). Various social media networks are implicated as factors.

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#98
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies. We're teaching our kids to be helpless. The only option we give them is to appeal to authority and it absolutely fucks them over when they're involved in a situation because of their own choices.

I agree. "Standing up to bullies is the kind of thing that gets young people expelled from school. Something about those zero tolerance policies." So it's not really the standing up part but the policy that gets them expelled.

Rigid, uncaring administrative bodies can often end up being bullies too.

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so strange to me that HN has this view of social media, but not other things, like fast food. Fast food uses deceptive advertising and purposefully tries to get kids addicted to their product; which slowly kills them over time. But I remember HN being against sugar taxes, and other laws to help prevent it. But for some reason social media is different? I don't see why it would be. Are the people on HN pushing fo…

> But for some reason social media is different? Correct! They are completely different things. Cheap unhealthy burgers != social media platforms. Just because you can draw an analogy between two things does not make them the same, and so having different opinions about them does not make one a hypocrite. But the better point to make, as the sibling comments have, is that saying "HN thinks X" is entirely meaningless…

That's why I said "Are the people on HN," I was recognizing that HN isn't a single monolith. Glad to see you read far enough to see that.

As to how they're different, I don't see it. This was a chance for proponents to describe how it's different, but nobody has; they've just said it is. All I see is a group of people begging the government to take away a freedom, instead of allowing parents a choice in how they raise their children.

Re: A South Carolina lawmaker is suing Instagram after his son died by suicide

#100
post #96

I hope this will encourage the lawmaker to ask more of law enforcement. It's their job to track this down. I'm sure Instagram would comply with whatever warrants were issued to them, even ones I'd personally prefer they not. It's unfortunate that it took this happening to a congresscritter, in their privilege of perfect law enforcement preference, otherwise blind to how LEOs aren't doing their job, to do something .…

So they track this down to some guy in Russia. Then what? Tracking down these types of criminals is probably the least effective things law enforcement could be doing because it's quite time-consuming and a lot of the time it gives you no concrete result.

I am not confident that 100% of these instances are "some guy in russia". Is it true that these scammers in question were? Or that LEO tracked them down at all? Or did anything meaningful?

I agree that we ask LEOs to enforce the law, and doing so is a lot of work. There is, though, quite a large discrepancy between what we ask them to do, and what they do, so it remains to be seen if they are doing a lot of work, and it remains to be seen if they work they do do, is the work we want them to do, versus the work they want to do (for example, what sort of speed limit enforcement operations do they run? How much do they prosecute simple drug possession?)

I believe opening themselves up freely and willingly to non-LEO oversight and control would do a lot to answer those questions.

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