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How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

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Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#181

Post by notyourwork »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #104
sph wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSA for people that believe they are somewhat smart, have cool ideas yet seemingly no power whatsoever to actually work on them. If you believe you are chronically lazy and feel it is causing issues in your life. If you feel you are living at 10% your true potential: Get tested for ADHD. If that is your problem, know that the chemical fix for it is extremely effective. It's taken me 30+ years of self-hate, a suggesti…

PSA: take a look at CDC's symptoms for ADHD: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html No motivation to start cool new projects is not among them... Actually, reading all those symptoms really puts into the light the 'disorder' part in the ADHD. And here's a philosophical question to ponder: should we change[1] to fit society's expectations or should society adjust itself to our needs? Should we take drugs so th…

I agree wholeheartedly. We have rampant drug problems plaguing society but within the white collar and academic world amphetamine is a safe substance for the “unmotivated”. I have trouble agreeing with that.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#182

Post by corethree »

Jensson wrote: post #147
corethree wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No there's a lot of articles on IQ and intelligence. Less on hard work. Mainly because most people on here are programmers and the job and interview is related to intelligence. People who take pride in there programming skill think they're intelligent. As a programmer myself I think most programmers are average. Programming isn't a very hard job imo. It doesn't require a huge amount of intelligence hence the reason w…

> No there's a lot of articles on IQ and intelligence. Less on hard work There really isn't, simple search shows: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Compare to for example search for intelligence, mostly results about AI or they are about downplaying intelligence, not saying it is important: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... or intelligent, same thing here: h…

Look up IQ. A search on intelligence is obviously obfuscated by AI topics.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#183

Post by arisAlexis »

Applejinx wrote: post #79
arisAlexis wrote: post #37

There could be a psychology study on how fast and who pressed or not on the link

…and how many self-help books they have purchased over the course of their lives :) I'm certainly guilty of the latter, and recognized the link as something that would scratch that still-relevant itch. Though I've grown out of compulsively chasing the purple cow :)

Also because clicking is a kind of admission that you are not that smart :)

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#184

Post by thebiss »

sph wrote: post #83
paxys wrote: post #14

From my experience in the tech industry I can say with utmost confidence that "not smart"/"talentless" people who are determined and hard-working lead to significantly better real world results than geniuses who are lazy, unmotivated or overall not action oriented. The vast majority of problems at any company are easy and don't need any big technological breakthroughs to solve. They are instead held back by (1) lack…

PSA for people that believe they are somewhat smart, have cool ideas yet seemingly no power whatsoever to actually work on them. If you believe you are chronically lazy and feel it is causing issues in your life. If you feel you are living at 10% your true potential: Get tested for ADHD. If that is your problem, know that the chemical fix for it is extremely effective. It's taken me 30+ years of self-hate, a suggesti…

I have a hard time with this advice. Is it for teens?

My daughter has severe ADHD and is a disaster without medication. One of her current doctors asked which parent has similar traits, and my wife says it is me. My daughter's academic and behavioral track record is shamefully like mine.

So I've been to two psychologists and my GP, and all three say that ADHD doesn't exist in adults, it's something kids grow out of.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#185

Post by pi-e-sigma »

api wrote: post #75
15457345234 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. -- Ronald Reagan

This feeds into one of my pet hypotheses about human ability: the most important biological factors determining success lie not in whatever influences IQ or other intelligence or creativity attributes but in the dopamine system. Take 20 IQ points from someone and replace that with the ability to engage focus and flow state at will and see what happens. Our dopamine system is tuned for a world that is far slower than…

Nothing can replace intelligence potential, i.e. IQ, because it's a prerequisite for a lot of activities. Just like the height in the basketball.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#186

Post by pi-e-sigma »

a_imho wrote: post #67
tharkun__ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parent never mentions overtime. Personally I agree with his assessment and none of it requires overtime. Lack of effort literally means people that show the level of effort your reply seems to suggest you are putting in. A normal level of effort, not just doing exactly as much as you need not to get fired is generally enough to stand out and have good results (output and pay wise). No overtime required. A good l…

Hard disagree, bruteforcing work for rewards is waaay sub optimal in the vast majority of cases. Most people are better off interviewing, job hopping and always-be-leaving and/or social engineering their careers. Note, I'm talking about competent people who can hold a job. Any unit of effort put in over not-getting-fired is almost 100% wasted (financial) reward wise.

Exactly. It's much, much easier to get promoted if you brown-nose or schmooze with your boss. If anything, being the hardest working man in a team is a sure way to not get a promotion because you are too valuable as a work-horse

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#187

Post by dard12 »

sph wrote: post #115
GeoAtreides wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PSA: take a look at CDC's symptoms for ADHD: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html No motivation to start cool new projects is not among them... Actually, reading all those symptoms really puts into the light the 'disorder' part in the ADHD. And here's a philosophical question to ponder: should we change[1] to fit society's expectations or should society adjust itself to our needs? Should we take drugs so th…

I see where you're coming from, but comments like this are why it's taken me 30 years to understand there was something not exactly right with me. It doesn't help anyone because ADHD is something no one has completely understood, especially those that do not have it, and keep muddying the waters at any chance they get. In my experience , if it has any value, ADHD is also lack of motivation to start new cool projects…

Wanted to note that the pattern of starting and never finishing projects maybe fits the CDC symptoms around difficulty directing one's attention. Potentially then a lack of motivation to start new projects could be a common experience of people with undiagnosed ADHD later in life, but it is perhaps less common for those without the accumulated guilt of past experiences (speaking hypothetically and without expertise).

I empathize with how the complexity of these experiences and their knock-on effects make understanding what is happening with ourselves difficult.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#188

Post by api »

ativzzz wrote: post #176
15457345234 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amphetamines are truly an evil drug, they bring out and emphasise the worst qualities of people.

Just like most everything else in life, amphetamines lie on a spectrum. People like Paul Erdos[0] would disagree completely. People who are prone to addictive behavior should stay away from recreational cocaine use. Meth is pretty destructive. But lots of people basically become functional (ADHD) on amphetamine. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s

I've seen people with ADD/ADHD go from basically non-functional to brilliant and together from a very modest dose of amphetamine or something similar.

You don't see the same gains in people without these conditions though. It's certainly not a wonder drug for productivity or executive function in people without a condition.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#189

Post by pi-e-sigma »

chii wrote: post #89
thrdbndndn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very true, but not sure how to solve it. For a job where the "reward" (mainly salary) is fronted and somewhat fixed (no bonus or bonus isn't worth it), some (even most) people basically work as little as possible to not get themselves fired. But it would also be challenging to change the rewarding structure to something similar to salesman.

> challenging to change the rewarding structure to something similar to salesman. profit sharing. This happens at the executive level, because it correctly aligns the incentives. But somehow, the run of the mill employee cannot be trusted to think for themselves and be incentivized?

Profit sharing works at every level, just the people at the top don't want to give a cut to those below them. So it's pure greed.

Re: How to do things if you're not that smart and don't have any talent

#190

Post by tasuki »

lulesp wrote: post #96
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A group I've encountered that this could help are those without tenacity. I have smart friends who are hugely into tech who somehow remained unemployable even during the boom times in that industry. I try and try to push them towards opportunities but they argue 'I just have no natural talent for that' and stop before they even get started. Eg. they tried programming for 3 days, still hadn't fully groked it (because…

Can be a case of child prodigies. When you get told early in your development that you are smart, smarter than the others, some tend to not put any effort because... well, they are smart so the answer will come naturally to them right ? When any obstacle arise to this magical solution, you just fold and flee any difficult task. Trying and failing would make them realize that you weren't so special to start with.

> some tend to not put any effort because... well, they are smart so the answer will come naturally to them right ?

Also, it's easier to preserve that self image by not putting in effort and failing. By putting in effort and facing an uncertain outcome, one could jeopardise their self image.

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