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Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

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Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#681

Post by bentt »

munificent wrote: post #398
bentt wrote: post #382

I am here to report as a parent of children that I have been able to keep them off of social media by not getting them phones, controlling the Internet in the house, and paying close attention.

How has it impacted their social life? My experience with my kids (middle and high school age) is that online is "where" most kids socialize today and if I don't let my kids go there, I am socially isolating them.

We allow my son to be online via his computers. He has a Macbook and a desktop PC. He's on Discord and a Slack. He can iMessage friends via his Macbook.

The thing about a phone is that there's a data plan and it's out of your sight a lot. But to be fair, my son is mostly fine with sticking to these channels for talking to friends. So, it is particular to the kid.

It doesn't hurt that we live in a tight nit community where he can walk to friends' houses, school, etc.

My daughter is younger and probably will want to get a phone more than he does, when she is old enough.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#682

Post by mirekrusin »

sangnoir wrote: post #632
mirekrusin wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be based on crypto designed by NSA, does it?

Design is far from the only threat vector. Any implementation that is less than perfect is prone to all kinds of attacks. A few years ago, there was a report that the NSA could decrypt a double-digit percentage of encrypted web traffic thanks to a larger-than-expected bag of factored primes they keep handy.

Great story, are you claiming that NSA can infer from zero-knowledge proofs inputs, maybe map cryptographic hashes to plain input text or something of that nature?

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#683

Post by bentt »

zamadatix wrote: post #542
bentt wrote: post #382

I am here to report as a parent of children that I have been able to keep them off of social media by not getting them phones, controlling the Internet in the house, and paying close attention.

My (non-technically inclined) nephew age 14 managed to get caught with an old Wii u from a friend and was using it to browser the net at 3am via the friend's (neighbor) Wi-Fi. I don't think paying close attention, as much as it should be done, is really the be and end all answer for everyone to know their kid is never on social media or sites they shouldn't be on. Beyond this example unless you're home schooling them…

My point really is that people get their kids' phones because they think they have to, but that's the root of the problem. We don't prevent our kids from being online - what we prevent them from doing is being online on their own, away from the house, with the internet in their pocket all the time. They each have computers.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#684

Post by JoshTko »

protocolture wrote: post #574
JoshTko wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to want no govt intrusion for this. Then I understood how there are teams of PHDs tweaking feed to maximize addition at each social network. I think there could be even limits, or some sort of tax on gen pop.

It would be less imposing on the populace if you just demanded a government hit squad kill those PHD's instead of demanding everyone submit to some onerous government crapware to access the internet.

There are plenty of middle ground approaches - one possible one: App default would be restricted time use. To get unrestrxistricted use you use a driver's license to authenticate birthdate only with OS. Mobile OS only confirming with app that user is above age requirement (does not share birthdate). App can only query if user is above 18yrs and nothing else. Easy peasy.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#685

Post by shuntress »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #543
shuntress wrote: post #488

Everyone here seems to be forgetting the root of this problem: Algorithms that select content (including ads) need to be treated as publishers rather than platforms . "facebook.com/users/my_friend/posts_in_cronological_order" is a platform "facebook.com/my_feed" is a publisher

Wasn't this how things were before Section 230? If your act as a dumb pipe then you're a provider and if you curate then you're a publisher.

There wasn't much Internet before Section 230. At that time, it was still kind of an open question.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#686

Post by 15457345234 »

Zak wrote: post #663
15457345234 wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's been deliberately designed to cause strife. They are genuinely anti-human companies that seem to want conflict and tension to occur. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/30/facebo... This article was very on-the-nose, that really should have been the writing on the wall.

I think this is a partial attribution error; the goal is to make money by capturing attention and selling it to advertisers. The fact that strife is one of the most effective ways to do so, and the companies appear utterly unconcerned about the resulting damage to society makes it look like strife is the end goal, but it is merely a means to make money. They would change their algorithms immediately if large advertis…

> the goal is to make money by capturing attention and selling it to advertisers

I mean, how do you know that?

How do you know that the goal isn't actually to perform social engineering on a huge scale and that the advertising is just the way that goal is being funded?

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#687

Post by px43 »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #634
px43 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A super interesting example of this is the proof-of-passport project. https://github.com/zk-passport/proof-of-passport Today you can scan your passport with your phone, and get enough digitally signed material chained up to nation level passport authorities to prove anything derived from the information on your passport. You could prove to an arbitrary verifier that you have a US passport, that your first name starts…

The selective disclosure is super cool, I wonder how it works since smthing like a hash of DG1 is what is actually signed, how can you selectively disclose verified data from "inside" the hashed area? It does not sound very feasible to me but I am not an expert in zk-snarks etc. There are some wrinkles that prevent passport data being used more broadly - technically it is a TOS violation to verify passports / use the…

ZK circuts have gotten really fancy lately, to the point where full blown ZK virtual machines are a thing, which means you can write a program in rust or whatever, compile it to riscv, and then run it on the risc zero zkVM. (https://github.com/risc0)

This means you can literally just write a rust program that reads in the private data, verifies the signature, reads the first byte in the name string and confirms that it matches what you expect, and then after everything looks good, it returns "true", otherwise it returns "false". This all would happen on your phone when you scan a QR code or something that makes the request, then you send the validity proof you generated to the verifier, they can see that the output was true, and nothing else.

In theory, the private data would be stored on a trusted device you own, like your phone or something, so someone who steals your phone would have a hard time using your identity. Using fancy blockchain stuff you could even to a one time registration of your passport such that even if someone steals your passport, they wouldn't be able to import as a usable ZK credential. Presumably there would be some logic around it so you can re-register after a delay period or something, giving the current credential holder a chance to revoke new enrollment requests or whatever. So, yes, proving your exact identity to a website isn't perfect, but it's easy enough to make it really noisy if someone is trying to tamper with your identity, and maybe that's good enough.

If you want to go the trusted hardware route, you could make someone take a picture of their face with some sort of trusted hardware camera on their phone or laptop, and then use some zkml magic to make sure it kinda looks like the face on the passport data. Given the right resources, trusted hardware is never that hard to tamper with, so I don't like that solution very much.

What's often more important in an online context is that your credential is unique. It doesn't matter who you are, it matters that you've never used this credential to sign up for a twitter account, or get past a cloudflare captcha, or any other captcha use case. If you steal 10 passports, maybe you can set up a bot that will automatically vote for something 10 times, but at least you can't vote millions of times. This is sybil resistance, and it's massively important for a ton of things.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#688

Post by huytersd »

mlrtime wrote: post #669
huytersd wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right there with you. This is probably the only thing I’m on board with the republicans about.

Funny, conservative beliefs are a like a slow feed as you get older and have kids... This is just the gateway. It happened to me and millions of others.

I’m pretty old and I don’t think anything else remotely appeals to me.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#689

Post by ZunarJ5 »

zamadatix wrote: post #530
ZunarJ5 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We say this is the only way, but what about regulating these companies properly???

"Regulating them properly" could mean a lot of things to a lot of people. Do you mean e.g. just not allowing porn on the internet or do you mean e.g. just not requiring identification verification? If neither, what way of regulation that allows distinction without banning content or identifying users?

Putting conditions on the company so that they do not even risk this in the first place, e.g. moderation, a demand to make tools to protect children, there are a lot of different things and prohibition is the least likely to work at any level. You can look at any issue in history with prohibition and see what that amounts to.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#690

Post by ninnip »

diputsmonro wrote: post #427
blitz_skull wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I'm not really sure that requiring IDs for access to porn / social media is a terrible idea. Sure it's been anonymous and free since the advent of the internet, but perhaps it's time to change that. After all, we don't allow a kid into a brothel or allow them to engage in prostitution (for good reasons), and porn is equally destructive. But with the topic at hand being social media, I think a lot of the sam…

The biggest problem with this is how we would define "porn". Some states are currently redefining the existence of a transgender person in public as an inherently lewd act equivalent to indecent exposure. I have no doubt that if your proposal were to pass that there would be significant efforts from extremist conservatives to censor LGBT+ communities online by labeling sex education or mere discussion of our lives as…

> Nevermind the fact that the existence of a government database of all the (potentially weird) porn you look at is a gold mine for anyone who wants to blackmail or pressure you into silence.

If you don't want a record of you looking at it, then don't look at it. All you need to do is refrain from pornography consumption. It really is that easy and simple.

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