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Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

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Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#671
post #658

I truly don't understand how the party of small government and parental rights of determination can justify passing this. Perhaps more relevant to HN, it seems to me that any solution here would be a dramatic loss of agency, privacy, and anonymity.

They've never been the party of small government and parental rights. That's just their sanctimonious tagline they use when convenient.

The reddit /r/politics trolls are entering HN. If you want to criticize something, better to understand it first.

Small Federal Government, more local government control. Let local communities decide for themselves what is important. Now I know your first thought is to ignore what I'm saying to find examples that prove this wrong. But this is the conservative approach in general.

NY and CA are never going to pass a bill like this, if having your kids on TikTok is important, move somewhere where you are with like minded people.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the either in GP's comment. i.e. they know you did one of those things because you requested an over-18 token, but not which one. The more covered activities there are, the more uncertainty they have about why you might have asked for a token.

This isn't really my area of expertise, is there a way to know for sure that those are all the same token? Or could the government just lie and say they are all the same when in reality they can really differentiate.

The government would have to document the API for requesting tokens for anyone to use it. I suggested a scheme here[0] where it's clear that the government doesn't get any information about the service (unless the service re-uses AES keys) and the service doesn't get any information about the user other than whether they're in the appropriate age group.

Potentially there could be coordination between .gov and the service to track users by having each side store the temporary AES key and reconcile out-of-band. But .gov has other ways they could get that information anyway if they have cooperation from businesses (e.g. asking your ISP for your IP address, and asking the service provider for a list of user IPs).

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39183486

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#673
post #503

I'd like to see a federal law mandating that any future law or regulation that restricts what children are allowed access to makes the parents solely liable if the children gain access. There should be a standard way to declare pages are age restricted, and the browser on the child's phone or computer should check it. But if the child bypasses that somehow, that's on the parents.

Let me guess, you don't have children... It's painfully obvious the people commenting here who have vs don't have kids.

The most vocal [and the most absurd ideas] are sure from people whom this will not affect at all as they don't have kids.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a cryptographer so I might miss something but I have the impression that - either a stolen card can be reused thousands of time meaning that it's so easy to get a fake that it's not worth the implementation cost - either there is away to uniquely identify a card and then it becomes another identifier like tracking ids.

Assuming you can make active queries to the verifier, you could do something like - Have your backend generate a temporary AES key, and create a request to the verifier saying "please encrypt a response using AES key A indicating that the user coming from ip X.Y.Z.W is over 16". Encrypt it with a known public key for the verifier. Save the temporary AES key to the user's session store. - Hand that request to the user…

Addendum: you can actually preserve the privacy of which bucket the user is in to all parties if this is sufficiently standardized that it goes through a browser API.

- Have the service generate the request as above, but now the request is "Please encrypt a response with key A for the user coming from ip X.Y.Z.W".

- Service calls a standard browser API with the request, telling the browser it would like to know the user is in the over 16 bucket. Browser prompts the user to verify that they want to let the service know they are over 16. Browser sends the request to the verifier.

- Verifier responds with a token for each bucket the user is in. So a 22 year old gets an over-16 token, an over-18 token, and an over-21 token.

- Browser selects the appropriate response token and gives it back to the service.

So the service only ever learns you are over the age limit they care about, and the verifier only ever learns that you asked for some token, but not which one.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#675
post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

You and I both know they're doing this for two reasons. To put a heavy burden that will be almost impossible to enforce on tech companies so they can easily punish them for political reasons and to stop teens from learning early how shitty the GOP is.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> opposition to what? This is coming from the state that is trying to ban books based on some backwards concern of a white kid feeling bad. (for the record I am white). I don't care what side of politics you are on... you know what opposition I am talking about. Whether you are for or against it. > not people concerned with it have an agenda to expose kids to "viewpoints" that their parents would disapprove of. Yes!…

I don't mean to turn this into a religious discussion, but adding onto what you are saying here with a personal anecdote: having access to the internet allowed me to see viewpoints besides the religious right-wing perspective I had been conditioned with (for lack of a better term), but the internet did not start the process of leaving religion. I made the decision to seek other perspectives and did so through many av…

There's nothing hamfisted about monitoring what other adults say to teens (and younger) when alone. It falls under basic supervision of minors, in order to prevent abuse.

Including abuse that abusers try to shoehorn in under the guise of noble cause. For example, like sexual grooming, cultic induction, political radicalization, etc.

Anything that anyone can say to a child, can be said to an adult. I mean that in two fashions.

The first is that it can be said in the presence of a guardian. If it can't be, that's a red flag for abusive and grooming behavior. Children have what is known as "guardians" for a reason. They are charged with making decisions for the child until that child is an adult. Which includes making decisions about steering them around abusive adults. Trying to circumvent that firewall is red flag behavior. Everyone who aims to do this should know how they are framing themselves. If an adult has something to say to children that is outside of the known school curriculum, then there is zero reason that it can't be said to their guardian at the same time.

The second fashion that I mean the assertion that "anything that anyone can say to a child, can be said to an adult" is the following:

If someone believes that what a parent teaches a child is misguided, then there is no reason whatsoever that their alternate presentation of facts cannot wait until the child is an adult. Assuming that their guardian wants to sheild them from that alternative view.

Needing to present alternative views to a child, instead of an adult who is more capable of wieghing what they say, falls in the same category of suspicious red flag behavior.

You may have appreciated the alternative views that you sought out as a child, but the truth is that you circumvented your parent's guardianship. And if your current views are valid or more valid, then they would have remained so once presented to you as an adult.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The biggest problem with this is how we would define "porn". Some states are currently redefining the existence of a transgender person in public as an inherently lewd act equivalent to indecent exposure. This is the first I've heard about this. Link?

This isn't really happening, the closest I can find is the controversial topic of drag shows in public or banning kids from drag shows. AFAIK there is no real legislation banning a trans person in public.

Agreed, it's just rhetoric. Same as all these claims of an ongoing 'trans genocide' in the USA. Absolute nonsense, but it gets the believers in this ideology all riled up, and so the purpose of this rhetoric is fulfilled.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, nothing is stopping said companies from scanning and assessing age of a user uploading selfies though. This is allegedly something that TikTok does. My point being, the framework is there, and then people actually report minors, the companies have to take it seriously, or face serious legal consequences.

How do you know the selfie is from the "primary" user? And how do you know they're underage, versus being a chubby-faced 18 year old (like yours truly was?)

It doesn't matter to the platform, mind you, I've seen people abuse this. They will deactivate the account and require ID.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#679
post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've never been the party of small government and parental rights. That's just their sanctimonious tagline they use when convenient.

The reddit /r/politics trolls are entering HN. If you want to criticize something, better to understand it first. Small Federal Government, more local government control. Let local communities decide for themselves what is important. Now I know your first thought is to ignore what I'm saying to find examples that prove this wrong. But this is the conservative approach in general. NY and CA are never going to pass a b…

> more local government control. Let local communities decide for themselves what is important.

Do you hear yourself, when commenting on a bill that is a ban in an area of 21 million people?

Hey, I think this bill is bad and should be legislated at the county level. I'm now more conservative than you.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#680

We've got to stop crafting a special world for children that is disconnected from the adult world. We should be moving in the opposite direction, lowering the voting age for example, allowing toplessness in appropriate places and allowing children in non-sexual adult spaces when with a guardian (like bars). How have we not yet learned that repressing kids is counterproductive?

To what end exactly?

To create well-rounded human beings who don't grow up with weird issues around nudity and drinking, for example. And who feel like that have some skin in the game and are actually part of society, not victims of it.
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