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Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

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21–30 of 38 posts

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft and IBM were very close in those days. In fact, Microsoft wrote (some? most? all?) of the first version of OS/2 under contract for IBM. It was in fact a disagreement between IBM and Microsoft over Windows 3.x that ultimately severed that partnership supposedly. It’s been many years since I read this, but if memory serves it was Ballmer’s handling of IBM that led to the term BOGUS having a special meaning at…

Oh? I thought you may have been thinking of the 1993 book by Paul Carroll, Big Blues: The Unmaking of IBM which is where I know it from. It gets mentioned on page 103.

It was a 90s era book I was originally remembering, so very possibly could’ve been that book. The one I linked above was definitely not the book, but also had a reference to the term.

It also might’ve been Gates: How Microsoft’s Mogul Reinvented an Industry

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#22
post #12

A few days ago, my girlfriend installed Corel Draw 10 in Windows 11 and it just amazed me how long good software keeps working. Corel Draw 10 is over 20 years old, and it still works. With installation wizard and everything.

Although it is easy to criticize Microsoft (and I often do) they are very good at keeping old apps running. I believe PerfectTablePlan v1, which I wrote in 2005 still works on the latest Windows. Apple, on the other hand, like to nuke their entire developer ecosystem from orbit every few years.

Not defending Apple, but one of the big transitions was stopping support for 32 bit apps. Even 20 years ago it was clear to anyone even mildly technical that 64-bit apps were the immediate future. Continuing to develop 32-bit only apps well into the 2010s was a conscious decision by developers to limit the lifetime utility of their software to a few years at most.

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although it is easy to criticize Microsoft (and I often do) they are very good at keeping old apps running. I believe PerfectTablePlan v1, which I wrote in 2005 still works on the latest Windows. Apple, on the other hand, like to nuke their entire developer ecosystem from orbit every few years.

Anecdotal, maybe, but three of the apps I am currently running on this M1 Pro are quite old and work the same: Adium (last build almost 7 years ago), Slate (12 years ago), and Notational Velocity (13 years). Laptops go, but my .app bundles stay ;-). I agree about Windows, though.

...but any apps from 20 years ago like the Corel Draw example will have a nice "No" cross over them, as they'll be PowerPC (either Mac OS X or classic). 15 years old stuff will probably be a no go as well, as they'll largely be 32 bit x86. And frankly, most people expect 64 bit x86 support to go away sooner rather than later. Apple really are aggressive about this stuff.

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#24
post #4

I was too young to experience OS/2. Looking at the screenshots, I am amazed at how much Windows 3/3.1/3.11 ripped off OS/2.

Visit Dave's Garage on YouTube for some computer history of a unique time

Just watch out for when he tells lies, like "Linux is proprietary too!"

https://i.imgur.com/qUNkpi0.png

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#25

The OS/2 and Win95 days were a wild ride. I remember being paid by Microsoft to hand out copies of CDs entitled "Arrive in Chicago earlier than expected" to students at the University of Waterloo back in Sept 1993 (I was a student there at the time) - it held a mashup of OS/2 and Win95 that was bizarre to say the least.

It was presumably IBM paying you, as that was a slogan they used on some betas of OS/2 Warp 3, eg. https://betawiki.net/wiki/OS/2_Warp_3_build_8.152 .

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visit Dave's Garage on YouTube for some computer history of a unique time

Just watch out for when he tells lies, like "Linux is proprietary too!" https://i.imgur.com/qUNkpi0.png

Given Dave's wicked sense of humor sharp enough to cut through blocks of steel, that reply feels like he was simply returning the disingenuous attitude back.

Remember, this is the guy who wrote Task Manager among many other things we now take for granted in Windows.

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#27
post #15

Not to rag on New Mexico State, but I'm totally going to rag on New Mexico State -- how hard can it possibly be to "maintain" something like this? Given that the software is from the '90s, it can't possibly total more than a few gigabytes? And the bandwidth surely can't be huge. Finally, what "maintenance" is even required? NMS surely has a large connection to the internet, so what this amounts to is one lonely machi…

This sounds more like a response to legal action than a technical inability to continue.

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#28
post #4

I was too young to experience OS/2. Looking at the screenshots, I am amazed at how much Windows 3/3.1/3.11 ripped off OS/2.

OS/2 started out as a joint venture between MS and IBM. So MS was not stealing from OS/2 but rather provided a lot of technology from the start in the late eighties.

I used OS/2 Warp 3 daily on my private machine back from 1995-1996. It was a nice OS with some innovative features:

- It came with HPFS (high performance file system) that worked nicely with large hard disks (I personally used it on a 540 MB drive I could afford back then.) and, more importantly, support long file names and extended file attributes which you could use to store sophisticated meta information inside. However, it was not doing any kind of journalling so would still be prone to file corruptions similar to ext2.

- It used preemptive multitasking that worked rather well even back on my DX4/100 MHz. You could play videos in the background and work on a text document without problems. You could even run multiple virtualized DOS games in little windoes next to each other on a single core CPU -- they would work but would, of course, drop some frames. However, there was this infamous design flaw of using a "Synchronous Input Queue" inside the "presentation manager" sending UI events to programs that (when they stopped servicing those) could still bring down all of the UI.

- It came with the "enhanced text editor" leveraging 32-bits to support editing large files and was extensible to a point you could use for software developing. Although, back then, I did not do much of that as a teenager. I rather ran Visual Basic 3.0 on OS/2 to did simple GUI programs.

- It came with WINOS2 being a full native windows 3.1 runtime so you could run windows apps seamlessly on your OS/2 desktop. If you had enough memory you could run a separate Windows core for each application and, this way, get a much more stable execution environment for Windows programs. IBM had full rights to use, ship and modify 16-bit Windows to keep it compatible with OS/2. That, of course, would not fly starting with WIN95.

- It used 386's "virtual real mode" to run full DOS environments for DOS programs. It had nice GUI support for allowing you to tweak DOS settings for each program separately to get as much conventional memory as you wanted for it. Even DOOM ran nice inside of OS/2 (but did not support Sound Blaster sound).

- The desktop supported the notion of "templates" you could create documents from. So, basically, you would not need to open an application to create documents but just dragged a new file from a template icon enabling "document centric" work flows. Or you could drag a file directly to the printer icon.

- IBM even provided a web browser for free on OS/2's bonus disk -- "Web Explorer". That worked actually quite well in the beginning. Later I switched to Netscape Navigator in its OS/2 version.

- OS/2 Warp 4 shipped with a speech recognition system for controlling the shell and even dictate text. That was seriously cool back then!

Re: Hobbes OS/2 Archive is shutting down

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although it is easy to criticize Microsoft (and I often do) they are very good at keeping old apps running. I believe PerfectTablePlan v1, which I wrote in 2005 still works on the latest Windows. Apple, on the other hand, like to nuke their entire developer ecosystem from orbit every few years.

Not defending Apple, but one of the big transitions was stopping support for 32 bit apps. Even 20 years ago it was clear to anyone even mildly technical that 64-bit apps were the immediate future. Continuing to develop 32-bit only apps well into the 2010s was a conscious decision by developers to limit the lifetime utility of their software to a few years at most.

In the case of macOS though, Apple chose to make many APIs not work in 64 bit. So it wasn't just a matter of fixing all their pointer sizes, they needed to totally change frameworks too. i.e. Apple nuked their ecosystem from orbit.
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