Earlier quoted context omitted.
People said Apartheid South Africa couldn't end without a bloodbath. People said peace in Northern Ireland was impossible. People thought the Cold War would never end. Impossible things are impossible until they aren't. I'm not saying that any of these things are easy - they clearly are not. But history shows us again and again that change is possible when people work towards it in good faith. From a practical point…
Peace could be achieved fairly easily if both sides said they want to live in peace. However only one does. I think that will change eventually.
ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#992Earlier quoted context omitted.
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You can't attack another user like this on HN, no matter how wrong they are or you feel they are. You may not feel you owe the other person better, but you owe this community better if you're participating it; especially given the intended spirit that I attempted to describe at the top of this thread. Denouncing others as monsters without humanity is what fuels this entire horror. The least we can do is not allow tha…
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#993Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't attack another user like this on HN, no matter how wrong they are or you feel they are. You may not feel you owe the other person better, but you owe this community better if you're participating it; especially given the intended spirit that I attempted to describe at the top of this thread. Denouncing others as monsters without humanity is what fuels this entire horror. The least we can do is not allow tha…
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I get that your intention is to oppose injustice, but when you do it this way, you actually contribute to the violence.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#994Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#995Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you believe 695 Israeli civilians, 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139? They're all numbers from the Israeli government. Weird how only disputing the Hamas numbers as biased is a talking point.
> Weird how only disputing the Hamas numbers as biased is a talking point. Why are you surprised that people trust Israel more than Hamas? Israel is a country that's ranked 29 of 167 on the Democracy Index[1], right _above_ the US. Hamas is literally a terrorist organization recognized in many countries, probably yours too. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#996Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is tribalism. The primary goal is exclusive dominion, but a distant secondary goal of political and militaristic domination will suffice in the meantime. These aren’t my thoughts or conclusions but the stated goals of several of Israel’s most senior politicians, saying something to the effect of removing the inhabitants so that they can make the desert blossom. The problems here can be solved peacefully a…
Your solution is to make Jews a minority in their own country? The entire reason Israel was created is to have a safe place for Jews to exist and having the power to defend themselves. Imagining that just “tearing down the walls”, and “why can’t we all just gel along” will work is pretty naive, especially considering history .
What I don't understand is why that state had to be erected in a land where people were already living, against the explicit wishes of that population, and in the end pushed through with military force.
Or rather, I do understand: This was how the world powers of the late 19th century were thinking and operating. They thought they had the god-given right to redraw the world map as they saw fit, in Africa in the 19th, and in the middle east in the early 20th century. But this mindset is what everywhere else we renounce as colonialism today - except for some reason here.
I think present-day Israelis do have a valid claim to the land, because they were born there and spent their entire life in that land. Forcing them to move away would amount just as much to expulsion than demanding the same from Palestinians. (Not even speaking of things that would amount to not just expulsion but genocide)
What I don't understand is what would give them the exclusive claim to the land or the right to drive others off it.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#997What is the guidance regarding commenters who are obvious trolls, propagandists and bad faith actors? Being kind to them is completely wasted effort. Replying to them is also wasted effort as they won't be persuaded. However leaving bullshit unchallenged might make trusting bystanders believe that this is actually the truth.
1. xkcd 386: Someone is wrong on the Internet: https://xkcd.com/386/>
2. Woozle's Epistemic Paradox: as epistemic systems become more prominently and widely used, they also become more attractive targets to those who would choose to manipulate them. See: https://web.archive.org/web/20230606193813/https://old.reddi...>
3. More generally, all informational channels become battlegrounds, as noted by von Clausewitz, Sun Tzu, numerous evolutionary biologists, and others. I've been slowly making my way through Jeremy Campbell's The Liar's Tale which is a big-picture look at this.
4. HN really isn't optimised around truth but conversation, and more specifically sustainable conversation, grounded in intellectual curiosity. There are numerous topics on which HN really is unable to have meaningful discussion (perennial ethnic conflicts are amongst these, as are other political hot topics), and its general tone-policing and penalisation of high-tension topics tends strongly to a status quo bias. (I've criticised HN for this often, despite an increasing awareness and appreciation of why those rules exist, see e.g., thread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39023516>.)
5. Reporting blatant trolling and suspect motivations to HN mods does often work. Email to hn@ycombinator.com and link directly to the offending content and/or user, with a clear but succinct description of the problem.
6. Voting (up or down) and flagging also have their place. For sufficiently contentious threads this may well lead to something of a high-attrition zone, but often the really egregious crud does sink to the bottom. I find that higher-rated comments tend to be more anodyne than insightful, though occasionally truth does out.
7. I've found that rather than direct engagement, either supporting a counterthread, or writing your own well-reasoned and well-supported counter-thread, is often suprisingly effective. Remember that yours is always the last comment when you write it, though a thread may well have additional life. Sometimes my late efforts prove far more successful than I'd expected, and often I'll see that others have succeeded where I've either failed or failed to try. And again, supporting others' salient and productive engagement even where you don't have time or energy to contribute is highly underappreciated.
8. You don't have to attend every fight you're invited to.
9. Truth is not a popularity contest. Voting systems ultimately don't select for truth or importance, and expecting that from sites such as HN or Reddit will prove disappointing.
10. The meaningful audience is typically not who you're responding to directly, but the overwhelmingly silent majority reading rather than contributing to discussion.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#998Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…
Just like the Nazis destroyed Jewish homes.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/01/world/middlee...
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#999Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…
Hi there, I personally admire the work you do, I fully support Israel in it's war against evil, I hope you eradicate Hamas (ideally they would all surrender, but that's unlikely, so the other option is they get killed) as soon as you can. If you doubt any of these words, check out my tweets/likes (@tomprimozic) However, there's 3 "contentious" points that I want to ask (my go-to Jewish (& very pro-Israel) close frien…
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/01/world/middlee...
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#1000Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
You can't attack another user like this on HN, no matter how wrong they are or you feel they are. You may not feel you owe the other person better, but you owe this community better if you're participating it; especially given the intended spirit that I attempted to describe at the top of this thread. Denouncing others as monsters without humanity is what fuels this entire horror. The least we can do is not allow tha…
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/01/world/middlee...
Just like the Nazis did to Jewish families. Just missing some time-period-specific-items, but the end result is exact and horrifying.