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Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

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Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#501

Post by dullcrisp »

dotancohen wrote: post #477
jlokier wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet That seems intuitive, but it's not actually true. I suggest looking up zero-knowledge proofs. Using modern cryptography, it is easy to send a machine-generated proof to your social media provider that your government-provided ID says your age is ≥ 16, without revealing anything else about…

The government need not know what sites you visit. It is damaging enough that the government know that you are visiting sites that require an age verification. You can then be flagged for parallel construction if you should, I don't know, start a rival political party.

Not if this were widespread. I wouldn’t be too bothered if the government knew that I either watched an R-rated movie or rented a car or purchased alcohol or created a Facebook account.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#502

Post by chasd00 »

jonathankoren wrote: post #460
TillE wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Protests while wearing robes and masks however This is absolutely permitted in America. It is illegal in countries like Germany which have no strong free speech protections.

No. It is not "absolutely permitted in America". They're Klan Acts, because a bunch of guys in masks and robes marching through is obviously a threat of violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-mask_law

There’s no issue protesting in masks. Antifa did it all the time with no repercussions.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#503

Post by wan23 »

I'd like to see a federal law mandating that any future law or regulation that restricts what children are allowed access to makes the parents solely liable if the children gain access. There should be a standard way to declare pages are age restricted, and the browser on the child's phone or computer should check it. But if the child bypasses that somehow, that's on the parents.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#504

Post by dathinab »

lukev wrote: post #210
causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) It's the same problem with requiring age verification for porn. It's not that anyone wants kids to have easy access to this stuff, but that any of these laws will either be (a) unenforceable and useless, or (b) draconian and…

> effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet

Technically you can make that work without issues (You only need to prove your age not your identity, something which can reasonably be archived without leaking your identity).

There are just two practical issues:

- companies, government and state (at least US police & spy agencies) will try to undermine any afford to create a reasonable anonymous

- it only technically works if a "reasonable degree" of proof is "good enough", i.e. it's must be fine that a hacker can create a (illegal?) tool with which a child could pretend to be 16+, e.g. by proxing the age check to a hacked device of an adult. Heck it should be fine if a check can be tricked by using the parents passport or phone. I mean it's an 16+ check, there really isn't much of a reason why it isn't okay to have a system which is only "good enough". But lawmakers will try nonsense.

Interestingly this is more a problem for the US then some other states AFIK due to how 1) you can't expect everyone 18+ to have an id and everyone 16+ to be able to easily get one (a bunch of countries have owing (not carrying) id requirements without it being a privacy issue. 2) Terrible consumer protection making it practically nearly impossible to create a privacy preserving system even if government and state agencies do not meddle.

Similar if there wouldn't be the issue with passports in US it probably wouldn't touch the First Amendment as it in the end protects less then a lot of people believe it does.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#505

Post by chasd00 »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #257
lukev wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what makes a site a social media site? Anywhere you can post interactive content? You do realize that laws like this would apply to sites like HN, Reddit, the comment section of every blog, and every phpBB forum you ever used? It's not just Instagram and Tiktok.

I think a perfectly clear line could be drawn that would separate out phpBB from TikTok very easily. I genuinely don't understand this comment, we shouldn't do it because it's hard or the results might be imperfect?

To me the issue is it’s a waste of government and waste of time. Parental controls already exist on all devices. The answer to every problem can’t be “more government, more laws”.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#506

Post by bandyaboot »

I’m no fan of some of the things that have been happening in FL, and I’m not sure that a simple outright ban on “social media” for <16 is the way to go, but at the same time, I think it’s a good thing they’re pushing this because the conversation needs to happen and with more urgency.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#507

Post by terpimost »

lukev wrote: post #210
causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) It's the same problem with requiring age verification for porn. It's not that anyone wants kids to have easy access to this stuff, but that any of these laws will either be (a) unenforceable and useless, or (b) draconian and…

It is pretty hard to give access to youtube to your kid with an account where age is stated. Yes kids can open browser in private mode… but they rarely do because it is a friction. If every social media would be moved to adult category the current rules in operating systems would do a good job. I am not sure about 16 years ( i would support it as a father )… but up to 13-14 feels appropriate, there is PG-13

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#508

Post by Lerc »

akerl_ wrote: post #2

This makes me think of how, as a child, every site asked “are you over 13”, and I diligently clicked “yes”. Some more clever sites asked for my birth year… forcing me to do the arduous work of taking the current year and subtracting 14. Though I suppose the real plan here is to pass the law and then have the government selectively prosecute social media companies for having users under 16.

I remember my daughter at an astonishingly young age encountering a age-login screen, turning to me and asking "How would they be able to tell?" then merrily telling the system she was 18.

https://fingswotidun.com/images/MelissaQuake3.jpg

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#509

Post by ttt3ts »

lukev wrote: post #210
causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) It's the same problem with requiring age verification for porn. It's not that anyone wants kids to have easy access to this stuff, but that any of these laws will either be (a) unenforceable and useless, or (b) draconian and…

> effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet

The bulk of the internet has not been anonymous for a while. Facebook requires an id already, Google tracks you using Google and the OS, reddit is tightening to control bots, amazon requires a phone number.

Think about it. What portion of your activities day to day on the Internet are anonymous? Now try to do them anonymously. It isn't practical/possible anymore and the internet of yesteryear is gone.

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