Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

abcnews.go.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 720 posts

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#341

Post by zhivota »

verall wrote: post #238
monkeynotes wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also social policy enforcement is a generational thing. The UK is only just getting toward outright banning cigarettes by making it illegal for anyone born after X date from ever buying them. Eventually you have a whole generation that isn't exposed to smoking and on the whole thinks the habit is disgusting, which it is.

Except that some people born after that date will still acquire them, get addicted, and then what? Prosecute them like drug possession? It's infantilizing and dumb. Grown adults should be allowed to smoke tobacco if they so wish and smoking rates are already way down due to marketing and alternatives. Noone needs to be prosecuted.

You don't need to prosecute any buyers at all though. All you need to do is make it illegal to sell in shops, and illegal to import. There will be a black market, sure, but how many people are going to go through the trouble and expense to source black market tobacco? Not that many. And everyone benefits because universal healthcare means everyone shares the cost of the health effects that are avoided.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#342

Post by solarpunk »

soared wrote: post #286

Technical implementation looks like a good use case for this, morals/etc aside - https://developers.google.com/privacy-sandbox/protections/pr... Private State Tokens enable trust in a user's authenticity to be conveyed from one context to another, to help sites combat fraud and distinguish bots from real humans—without passive tracking. An issuer website can issue tokens to the web browser of a user who shows that th…

you've posted this in a few threads, but i dont think i understand what the scenario it is used in would be?

every user of social media in florida now has to visit a third party (who?) that sets a cookie (private state token?) on their browser that verifies their age?

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#343

Post by chankstein38 »

causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

No I definitely agree. I'm a little skeptical of how they'll enforce this but ultimately I think less kids on the internet and social media will be a positive and I agree that it doesn't seem like parents have managed to figure out how to address this.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#344

Post by semiquaver »

tokai wrote: post #90

Its impressive how people here, that should know better, are cheering this on - just because they are parents themselves. Even disregarding the legality, its not going to work technically. The perceived safety of ones kids really crosses some wires in parents.

I’m a parent and think this is bullshit. It won’t work and it isn’t designed to work, it’s just political posturing destined to be struck down by courts.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#345

Post by giancarlostoro »

woodruffw wrote: post #327
giancarlostoro wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the only way to do this is to require ID checks COPPA has entered the building. If you're under 13 and a platform finds out, they'll usually ban you until you prove that you're not under 13 (via ID) or can provide signed forms from your parent / legal guardian. I've seen dozens of people if not more over the years banned from various platforms over this. We're talking Reddit, Facebook, Discord and so on. I get…

"Finds out" is the operative part. COPPA is not a proactive requirement; it's a reactive one. Proactive legislation is a newer harm that can't easily be predicted based on past experiences with reactive laws.

Indeed, nothing is stopping said companies from scanning and assessing age of a user uploading selfies though. This is allegedly something that TikTok does. My point being, the framework is there, and then people actually report minors, the companies have to take it seriously, or face serious legal consequences.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#346

Post by paulddraper »

o11c wrote: post #335
paulddraper wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) The First Amendment guarantees free expression, not anonymous expression. For example, there are federal requirements for identification for political messages. [1] These requirements do not violate the First Amendment. [1] https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/advertisi...

In particular, "anonymous speech is required if you want to have free speech" is actually a very niche position, not a mainstream one. It just happens to be widely spammed in certain online cultures.

Correct.

I am staunch believer in the moral and societal good of free speech.

Anonymous speech is far more dubious.

Like, protests seem valuable. Protests while wearing robes and masks however...

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#347

Post by emporas »

jlokier wrote: post #249
lukev wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) It's the same problem with requiring age verification for porn. It's not that anyone wants kids to have easy access to this stuff, but that any of these laws will either be (a) unenforceable and useless, or (b) draconian and…

> But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet That seems intuitive, but it's not actually true. I suggest looking up zero-knowledge proofs. Using modern cryptography, it is easy to send a machine-generated proof to your social media provider that your government-provided ID says your age is ≥ 16, without revealing anything else about…

Definitely, we can use a government issued id, or we can create our own. Social graphs i call em. Zero knowledge proofs have so many ground breaking applications. I have made a comment in the past, relevant to how could a social graph be build, without the need of any government [1]. We can create effectively one million new governments to compete with existing ones.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36421679

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#348

Post by dmitrygr »

causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

> I might be the only one here in favor of this

Not even close. I am with you

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#349

Post by slily »

lukev wrote: post #210
causal wrote: post #36

I might be the only one here in favor of this, and wanting to see a federal rollout. It is not reasonable to expect parents to spontaneously agree on a strategy for keeping kids off social media- and that kind of coordination is what it would take, because the kids + social media companies have more than enough time to coordinate workarounds. Have the law put the social media companies on the parents side, or these k…

But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) It's the same problem with requiring age verification for porn. It's not that anyone wants kids to have easy access to this stuff, but that any of these laws will either be (a) unenforceable and useless, or (b) draconian and…

People can post all kinds of illegal things online and no one is suggesting that content should be approved before it can be visible on the Internet. It doesn't have to be strictly enforced to act as a deterrent. How effective of a deterrent it would be has yet to be seen.

Re: Florida House of Representatives approves bill to ban social media for kids < 16

#350

Post by cmiles74 »

JeremyNT wrote: post #231
lukev wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the only way to do this is to require ID checks, effectively regulating and destroying the anonymous nature of the internet (and probably unconstitutional under the First Amendment, to boot.) It's the same problem with requiring age verification for porn. It's not that anyone wants kids to have easy access to this stuff, but that any of these laws will either be (a) unenforceable and useless, or (b) draconian and…

Yes, this isn't the right solution. The power needs to be given to the users. A better solution is more robust device management, with control given to the device owner (read: the parent). The missing legislative piece is mandating that social media companies need to respond differently when the user agent tells them what to send. I should be able to take my daughter's phone (which I own), set an option somewhere tha…

Emancipation of children is also a thing, where a minor may petition the court to be treated as an adult. This also falls afoul of a blanket age restriction.

https://jeannecolemanlaw.com/the-legal-emancipation-of-minor...

Post reply on HN