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On a Tesla: Don't

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Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#71

Post by flir »

wolframhempel wrote: post #5

On the "yelling at me" part - I find this an absolutely puzzling design pattern that a number of automakers have adopted. I was driving a Volkswagen ID4 - their mid-size electric car - the other day, and my dog was on the back seat. She triggered the seat belt alarm, but not straight away, only once we were on the German Autobahn. It showed the icon on the dashboard, then it started beeping. Then it started beeping l…

> It is this idea of "forcing your customer to obey by inflicting discomfort" that's puzzling me. I can't think of any other industry or product that would think this would be a good idea.

Telephones. The original UK ringtone was explicitly designed to be as irritating as possible (some really weird time signature, I think?)

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#72

Post by msh »

Aschebescher wrote: post #52
msh wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a passenger without a seat belt I think most places you are supposed to pull over ASAP to solve the situation.

It's illegal to stop on the Autobahn if your car is still in driving condition.

No, its allowed to stop for emergencies. I agree that having a dog on the back seats is not an emergency but the intended purpose of the alarm would be having someone on the back seat who could not fasten their seatbelt. I don't know if that would count as an emergency in a German court but I certainly would count it as a emergency (and it would be illegal).

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#73

Post by Log_out_ »

Turskarama wrote: post #55
plastic3169 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”In 2003, the Transportation Research Board Committee, chaired by two psychologists, reported that "Enhanced SBRs" (ESBRs) could save an additional 1,000 lives a year.[100] Research by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that Ford's ESBR, which provides an intermittent chime for up to five minutes if the driver is unbelted, sounding for 6 seconds then pausing for 30, increased seat belt use by 5 percenta…

That's the driver, but I've had similar problems with the car yelling at me when I put a sufficiently heavy bag of shopping on the passenger seat. The only seat where the weight is guaranteed to be a human is the drivers seat. By all means, put an alarm on that seat, but the other seats can contain things other than passengers.

And it only kills missophoniacs so it's okay

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#74

Post by orwin »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #18
dhg72 wrote: post #3

A few legitimate but common complaints marred by a bunch of issues that aren’t common (my phone key works fine, Bluetooth is fine, etc) and completely unsubstantiated prediction that the runaway top seller of EVs, indeed the best selling cars several years running, will somehow “fail to compete” in the EV space

There are some apparently legitimate issues, followed by political grievances against Musk personally, written by a guy who describes himself as "law professor, activist". This kind of partisanship taints the whole article, and lessens its credibility.

If you think the kind of partisanship Lessig have taint anything negatively, you either do not know about him or hang in the wrong place imho. I happen to think he's mostly wrong and disagree with a lot of what he write (sorry, it's true), but I have to respect the thinker and his ideology.

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#75

Post by bzzzt »

akmarinov wrote: post #66
bzzzt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because you don't get a spare tire so you have to wait until road side assistance comes to you.

That's the case for most cars post 2017

Yeah, my 2015 car came with an optional spare wheel which eats up a significant part of the not very big trunk. Haven't used it the last 9 years so I get why people opt for the repair kit. The chance of having a tire leak probably depends a lot on the quality of the roads where you drive.

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#76

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

evansj wrote: post #60
Turskarama wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the driver, but I've had similar problems with the car yelling at me when I put a sufficiently heavy bag of shopping on the passenger seat. The only seat where the weight is guaranteed to be a human is the drivers seat. By all means, put an alarm on that seat, but the other seats can contain things other than passengers.

Worth noting that something heavy enough to trigger the seat occupancy sensor can still do you a lot of damage as it flies around the inside of a car in a crash. I put the seatbelt on around boxes and bags if they're on the seat.

I have child seat in my back seat secured to designated attachment points (not the seatbelt) and its heavy enough to warn me EVERY time. It's secured, not dangerous, and is a persistent false positive. Badly designed systems can also do harm by training people to ignore them or even actively circumvent them.

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#77

Post by toyg »

evansj wrote: post #60
Turskarama wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the driver, but I've had similar problems with the car yelling at me when I put a sufficiently heavy bag of shopping on the passenger seat. The only seat where the weight is guaranteed to be a human is the drivers seat. By all means, put an alarm on that seat, but the other seats can contain things other than passengers.

Worth noting that something heavy enough to trigger the seat occupancy sensor can still do you a lot of damage as it flies around the inside of a car in a crash. I put the seatbelt on around boxes and bags if they're on the seat.

This. Even outside crash situations, a brusque movement could send things flying, distracting the driver enough to cause Bad Things.

Use the boot, people; at worst, put stuff under the seat, never above.

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#78

Post by toyg »

Turskarama wrote: post #57
DrBazza wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a wider problem than just the seatbelts. The whole cockpit of a car is now a distraction from the most critical thing - driving safely. For reasons I don't understand, tactile push buttons, with physical feedback, for most tasks are increasingly being replaced with a touch screen you have to look at rather than looking at the road instead and just reaching over to the dashboard. Hanlon's Razor? It feels like the…

It is literally because it's cheaper, but ironically my Kia Rio, one of the cheapest cars on the road, has physical buttons.

Ironically, the savings they get from physical manufacturing they probably lose on expensive developers, lol.

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#79

Post by sshine »

Until recently, you could not disable automatic windshield wipers when using Auto-Steer (lane control). You can now, though...

If Tesla is this delusional about how bad automatic windshield wipers are, why not require FSD to be enabled at all times?

Re: On a Tesla: Don't

#80

Post by toyg »

wolframhempel wrote: post #5

On the "yelling at me" part - I find this an absolutely puzzling design pattern that a number of automakers have adopted. I was driving a Volkswagen ID4 - their mid-size electric car - the other day, and my dog was on the back seat. She triggered the seat belt alarm, but not straight away, only once we were on the German Autobahn. It showed the icon on the dashboard, then it started beeping. Then it started beeping l…

My dad spent most of his working life on "preaching" road safety for the local health service, reviewing all the data in the world (more or less) to tell people what works and what doesn't.

Unfortunately, one thing he learned is that every measure of forceful compliance is consistently more successful in preventing accidents and deaths. Seatbelts save lives, but they had to be made compulsory by law to drill the concept into people; and even with that, it takes un-inescapable annoyances like this alarm to get into compliance that last 5-10% of stubborn idiots who just won't do the right thing. Full-face helmets save lives, but so many people insist in using pointless "bowls" or even nothing at all. Respecting speed limits save lives, but it takes speed cameras to actually persuade people to do that. Etc etc.

The technical implementations can always improve, of course. And tbh, it takes nothing to fix the issue reported: just fasten the belt "empty" when you have the dog (and accept the poor thing will not survive an impact...). The industry is what it is because People Are Bad At Risk-Assessment, and that's that.

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