just stumbled over this article related to the topic:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marissaperetz/2019/05/16/hiring...
Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
141–150 of 300 posts
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In mu experience, people don't want equity as much as they want a living wage. They want a proper salary, every month, not some mythical payday in the future. People also don't want to be screwed over by their friends. A little equity costs the startup's founders very little, while making sure their friends see some benefit from a successful exit is worth a lot to those friends.
The concept of 'screwed over' usually boils down to a misunderstanding. If I hire a friend, then the transaction is simple - do the work, get a salary. Whether the business does well, or badly, is irrelevant. How much I do, or don't, take home is irrelevant. There's no "fairness" in play here, it's a simple business transaction. If you can't live with that then don't take the job. Join as a founder, or go start your…
>Feeling "screwed" happens when you feel entitled to the upside, but don't take the downside along the way. When the business folds, and the owner loses his house, are you chipping in? Are you signing paper to cover liabilities?
Hard disagree here. A startup only works if you get really motivated people to sacrifice a good portion of their lifetime to work for you. Most startups can't provide competitive wages with "big corp". If the startup folds these people lose their jobs, too. If it succeeds they should see a good part of the upside, too.
Working for a startup is a risky investment of your time. And should be rewarded accordingly. A startup that doesn't give you a living wage and at least a bit of equity is trying to screw you over.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#143[dead]
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#144Just don't work like a founder and it could be good. Working with friends you can be totally honest and comfortable with can be amazing. More context would help. Your age? Startup stage? You have kids? Etc
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Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#145There's an old aphorism that goes something like "don't get loans from family". I consider people worth calling friends to be similar to family. I also don't have close family connections at that level. Guess that means I put more importance on friendship. I've had the experience one time of cofounding a company with a friend. It didn't end badly, but it wasn't ideal. I realized pretty quickly I was going to be solel…
I made a rule a long time ago not to lend money to friends or family. If I have the money and they need it, I'm usually willing to give them the money, and if they choose to give it back later, I'll be appreciative, but putting that expectation on it seems to be a good way to ruin relationships.
I've also learned the hard way never to hire friends, even for short-term projects like fixing a plumbing problem when the friend works professionally as a handyman. There's always a difference between the expectation of a person hiring someone to do a job, and the person doing the job, and none of it is worth ruining a friendship over.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#146There's an old aphorism that goes something like "don't get loans from family". I consider people worth calling friends to be similar to family. I also don't have close family connections at that level. Guess that means I put more importance on friendship. I've had the experience one time of cofounding a company with a friend. It didn't end badly, but it wasn't ideal. I realized pretty quickly I was going to be solel…
Another one - if you want to lose a friend, lend him/her some money
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Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> IMO, it should be illegal to launch a limited liability company/corporation and only allow specific people to buy shares. I object to the idea of incorporation and limiting directors' liability to begin with but since it is allowed, at the very least, it should be a requirement under the law that the shares be on the open market such that anyone who wants them can buy them and resell them at any time. I don't under…
>> If I start a company on my own and I provide all the equity then I own all the "shares". What would it mean for those shares to "be on the open market"? If I'm not selling them then no one can buy them. If you own all the shares initially, it means you get to set the price to whatever you want (and hope that someone is willing to pay that price), or you can just hold them and keep them all to yourself. BUT, if you…
This is like reading the early chapters of a fiction story about an alternate universe.
What, to you, is the difference between these two situations?
1. One person decides to form a company and has all the shares. After six months, he realizes he should really have worked with a cofounder, so he closes that business and opens a brand new one with this cofounder, the two of them now equally owning half the shares.
2. One person decides to form a company and has all the shares. After six months, he realizes he should really have worked with a cofounder, so he hires a very high level early employee and gives him half the shares.
How does this change based on the number of co-founders/early hires? Why does it make a difference if their need for a new person surprises them, so they start all over with the distribution of the equity of a new "business," or they plan for it in advance and set equity aside for such hires?
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
The concept of 'screwed over' usually boils down to a misunderstanding. If I hire a friend, then the transaction is simple - do the work, get a salary. Whether the business does well, or badly, is irrelevant. How much I do, or don't, take home is irrelevant. There's no "fairness" in play here, it's a simple business transaction. If you can't live with that then don't take the job. Join as a founder, or go start your…
>Feeling "screwed" happens when you feel entitled to the upside, but don't take the downside along the way. When the business folds, and the owner loses his house, are you chipping in? Are you signing paper to cover liabilities? Hard disagree here. A startup only works if you get really motivated people to sacrifice a good portion of their lifetime to work for you. Most startups can't provide competitive wages with "…
A company that doesn't give you a living wage is indeed screwing you over if they don't make it up elsewhere.
>> A startup only works if you get really motivated people to sacrifice a good portion of their lifetime to work for you.
Either pay them for their work, or take them on as founders with founder level equity. Then you all float or sink together.
Employees who sell their time at low rates with the "hope" that they'll get rewarded on the day of sale (but without an agreement) are, well, bad at business. Hope is not a good strategy.
I completely agree that employees who pour in their time for little salary, and no formal equity, then they are fools.
Incidentally, if you think anything below Fang level salary is "low" then your thinking is too binary. Salaries are a continuum. There's no long long way between making a good living and Fang.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#149Badly. The first problem was that I was an employee, even though I was the one who actually had made the product the investment was based on. No shares for me. I shouldn't have accepted it, but you don't say no to friends. The situation could have improved, but didn't. End of friendship.
Don't go into business with friends or family, certainly not on unequal terms.
OTOH, I later joined an existing start-up as a simple employee, to contribute to their great plan. It was a great plan, but couldn't be sold, so that ended, but I did end up befriending my most direct colleague of that period.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#150Starting a startup like that is like a marriage so if you don’t think you’d marry your friend, maybe don’t.