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Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

lcamtuf.substack.com

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Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#41

Post by lmm »

WalterBright wrote: post #31
ergocoder wrote: post #8

> The problem is that every employee is judged by their ability to get work done That's mostly not true.

It's mostly true. What's also mostly true is people have a mostly incorrect perception of their abilities. It's like when 85% of drivers believe they are above average. If it was mostly untrue, they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job.

> If it was mostly untrue, they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job.

This is incredibly naive. The same logic would say that if project estimates were mostly wrong in a given company then they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job. And yet project estimation is notoriously terrible across the whole industry.

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#42

Post by WalterBright »

lmm wrote: post #41
WalterBright wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly true. What's also mostly true is people have a mostly incorrect perception of their abilities. It's like when 85% of drivers believe they are above average. If it was mostly untrue, they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job.

> If it was mostly untrue, they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job. This is incredibly naive. The same logic would say that if project estimates were mostly wrong in a given company then they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job. And yet project estimation is notoriously terrible across the whole industry.

Since everyone here knows how to do it better, start a company and crush those incompetent companies!

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#43

Post by ram_rar »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #2

I'd guess a lot of people would have their own special stories to tell. However, do not underestimate the fact that some of these stories might not be easily disclosed. A "friend of mine", let's call it Bob, decided to leave one of the big tech companies (call it "A"), and join another big tech company (call it "B"), which offers him exactly double the salary. Due to a very unlucky combination, a former colleague at…

I've observed this scenario occur frequently. The lesson I've learned is to remain silent until your new job in the new company stabilizes, and then, after some time, share the news with the world. This gives you 2 things

1. Time to acclimate to a new company. If things don't go as planned, there's always mostly the option to boomerang.

2. The likelihood of your previous employer imparting a 'lesson' significantly decreases.

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#44

Post by neilv »

gurchik wrote: post #38
neilv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean non-ridiculous companies/people claiming that. Google definitely used to have that mythos/meme (said by others, so the company didn't have to say it), but I don't hear anyone saying that recently.

Netflix does. I don't know any other company that is more honest than: > A dream team is one in which all of your colleagues are extraordinary at what they do and highly effective working together. [...] Dream teams are about performance, [...] Sustained “B” performance, despite an “A” for effort, gets a severance package with respect. https://jobs.netflix.com/culture

I'd read that page a few months ago, and it started out compelling, but there were some off whiffs of culture that sounded like it might be more arrogance than meritocracy. (Maybe not, but it's a pattern elsewhere, and I was getting that vibe.)

More recently, unrelated, I re-signed up for Netflix as a consumer, and almost immediately noticed several problems (most not explained by intentional dark patterns). So I'm not buying the self-proclaimed universal excellence.

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#45

Post by justapassenger »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #12

> " ...as well as a handful of unlucky folks who deliver solid results but lack social grace and self-promotion skills. " Ironic that what was once the character archetype for geeky programmers have now become pariahs in the industry they pioneered. Now we all toot our own horns as loudly as we can, hoping to drown out our fellows, in search of the next bonus or job hop and devil take the hindmost. Introverted, have…

[dead]

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#46

Post by photonbeam »

neilv wrote: post #32
waynesonfire wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> see companies trying to claim that You're not paying attention. Did you see the Internet Brands return to home viral corp video they emberrassingly took down?

I mean non-ridiculous companies/people claiming that. Google definitely used to have that mythos/meme (said by others, so the company didn't have to say it), but I don't hear anyone saying that recently.

Yeah its a bit easier to say you only have the best at 1k to 5k headcount, then at a sprawling 150k+

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#47

Post by dclowd9901 »

About halfway through this article I got to thinking: what if we measured reward as not just pay, but also responsibility. But no, I don’t mean “give this person more agency over others.” I mean “give this person more ability to execute on their own terms within the company.”

Let’s say I’m an employee at company X. And I notice employee Anna is not just good at her work but also seems to have a keen understanding of working on things that deliver real, actual value to the company. I, along with others, say “this one… this one ‘gets it.’”

What should an exec want to do with her? Give her more projects? Well, no, because she probably won’t like to work on the stupid bullshit execs or PMs come up with.

How about make her a manager? In all likelihood, she won’t like that either, especially if she’s competent. We bring in PMs to deal with collaboration and coordination when the engineers get too busy doing actual work.

So let’s just let her build shit. Let’s trust her to dig into the product, grab some people, and make things that customers will love.

Let’s make her the CEO of her own little startup within the company. She can provision services and hardware. She can get licenses. Basically take roadblocks out of her way so she can just keep making to her heart’s content.

That’s how you promote. That’s how you build value.

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#48

Post by cloche »

dasil003 wrote: post #13
nine_zeros wrote: post #7

The whole "fitting on a curve" thing is so awful and so stupid, tech companies engaging in it should be ashamed. It's like asking to rank every player on a soccer team. Gotta get rid of the goalkeeper because we decided to stack rank every one on goals - disregarding that everyone plays a different role on the team and the team can only win together.

This is not a good analogy as professional sports is much easier to assess performance and also much much more ruthless in terms of being cut.

It's also not a good analogy because it compares across positions. Someone in marketing would not be compared against an engineer.

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#49

Post by lmm »

WalterBright wrote: post #42
lmm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it was mostly untrue, they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job. This is incredibly naive. The same logic would say that if project estimates were mostly wrong in a given company then they'd be crushed by a competitor who did a better job. And yet project estimation is notoriously terrible across the whole industry.

Since everyone here knows how to do it better, start a company and crush those incompetent companies!

Saying it's being done badly is not the same as saying that one could do it better. Some things are hard to do, hard to incentivise, or both. And sometimes there really is a dollar bill lying in the street.

Re: Hell is other people: performance management at Big Tech

#50

Post by Gunax »

nine_zeros wrote: post #7

The whole "fitting on a curve" thing is so awful and so stupid, tech companies engaging in it should be ashamed. It's like asking to rank every player on a soccer team. Gotta get rid of the goalkeeper because we decided to stack rank every one on goals - disregarding that everyone plays a different role on the team and the team can only win together.

Unfortunately, I think it's the only way to do it.

Corporate incentives are weird. Firing people is tough. If you don't force it, people find a way to just go along with the status quo. If you let them, managers all report that their teams are just super high functioning. And that path leads to mediocrity. Just like how the peer rating system devolved into bland platitudes.

From an executive's standpoint, where you are looking at thousands of individuals with no way to tell, I completely understand it.

And you accept that some unfairness will happen. People will be fired because they happen to be the lowest on a high-ranking team. You accept that's unfortunate, but the alternative is worse.

One reason your soccer analogy doesn't apply to a corporation is the scale--sports teams have a few dozen members. It's possible to know them all.

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