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U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

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Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#261
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you think might be going on with the overall discipline of the US military today, it has nothing on how bad things were in the Vietnam era. Enlisted men slipping grenades into their officers’ tents after getting high as a kite in a combat zone was a regular occurrence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging This comment just shows you to be ignorant and contrarian.

Fragging was more often a rational act of self preservation than drug-induced madness. It was mostly soldiers getting rid of officers who were likely to get them killed. Heroin and weed don't just turn otherwise good men into murderers.

Maybe my phrasing implied too much causality, but a mixture of psychoactive drugs, extended sleep deprivation, and combat stress could turn anyone into a murderer.

And recent research absolutely has shown that heavy cannabis usage in adolescence and early adulthood does have a clear association with an increased risk of developing psychosis and schizophrenia. Just because the war on drugs lied about the effects of less harmful drugs like cannabis doesn’t mean they can’t be hazardous to your health like any other substance.

Regarding heroin - one may not be particularly murderous while zonked out, but addiction can make people surprisingly aggressive.

I’d also like to add that the company-grade officers stuck in the mud alongside enlisted were less at fault for the needless deaths than the incompetent general staff or the political actors who got us and kept us over there in the first place. You might enj the novel “Matterhorn” by Karl Marlantes, a Marine infantry officer who served with distinction in Vietnam. Or you might prefer “Dereliction of Duty” by Lt General H.R. McMaster, a renowned commander of the GWOT era who wrote his PhD thesis on the failures of Westmoreland and the other generals who mangled Vietnam.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#262
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass conscription for what? The most dangerous bottleneck of western forces is supply of advanced weaponry, which is already taxed by the war in Ukraine. Even if these supply bottlenecks are fixed, it will continue to be a severe strain on public finances. And as you hint at, the draftees have to be trained to be more useful than being static targets. 21st century battlefields are very fast-paced and deadly and often…

> 21st century battlefields are very fast-paced and deadly and often asymmetric; The current battlefield in Ukraine is anything but fast-paced, and this is the largest continental war we’ve had since May ‘45 (the War in Korea has some shots of having been bigger, but then only for one year or so, 1950).

As you say, that's just the current phase of the war. No stalemate or operational lull holds forever. Anyways, that doesn't affect the rest of my argument.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#263
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked as long as they were properly integrated into the legionary structure. Auxilia were organized, disciplined, led, and ulimately paid and rewarded like the non-auxilia. The system stopped working because they abandoned it. Due to time pressure, they hired entire war bands and armies as mercenaries led by their kings instead of reorganizing them into Roman-style forces. It didn't help at all that the Romans we…

They did the hiring part that you mention most probably because it was cheaper (in the context of the then Roman economy, that is). I also think that the much higher level of taxation inflicted on the (local) Roman population certainly didn’t help, as I feel that by the 3rd-4th century many parts of the Roman hinterland were much less populated than they should have been (had not the higher taxation hindered the Roma…

Yeah, maybe. Money is not the only issue. Battle-hardened troops simply take a long time to be replaced. The early 5th century saw lots of infighting between eastern and western emperors and ambitious provincial rulers, which predictably depleted the army and emptied the coffers of the empire. The Eastern Empire fared better because it was more affluent and more densely settled than the western half.

The fall of the western empire is more accurately described as a fragmentation, after which live mostly went on like it did before. The true downfall of Roman civilization in Italy happened during the decades-long unsuccessful attempt by the Eastern Empire to recover the peninsula.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#264

Less people being willing to go fight and die in pointless wars is at least a small positive sign for society.

For a country to exist, it needs a military or an ally with one. It's easy to have no military, as long as you don't mind being completely controlled by a country with one.

  TL;DR: Costa Rica has no threatening armies around it, so they don't need one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2ycu1f/c...

There's also a bit about Panama being chill (possibly because of all the business generated by the canal), and Nicaragua basically held in place by international law.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#265
post #53

They should institute a voluntary conscripted amnesty/asylum for those who entered into the country and are on immigration parole. This program could allow for retroactive application to spouses/children (no extended family transferability until completion of service contract). There would be no need for sign-on bonus, you could add additional qualifications for g.i. benefits in the form of naturalization. It would r…

> They should institute a voluntary conscripted amnesty/asylum for those who entered into the country and are on immigration parole.

There are ways to do this. The French Foreign Legion is perhaps the most time tested, but the requirements it has also mean that the model is incompatible with US Democrat party ideology:

* Only male recruits.

* Criminal history check, including with Interpol

* Identity must be verificiable with official documents from country of origin

* Health screening including dental, psychological, and fitness. No waivers for anything.

The initial contract is for 5 years. If you make it and re-enlist for an additional contract (usually a couple of years), you can now apply for French citizenship.

See: https://foreignlegion.info/joining/#Requirements

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#266

I am a well educated individual. I did not have to work very hard at all for a well paying job after college from a respected company. I have skill sets that are absolutely in demand, particularly in areas the military would like. When China re-colonized Hong Kong I gave strong thought to joining the military. When Russia invaded Ukraine, I similarly felt called to join the military, if not to fight for Ukraine, to p…

>I gave strong thought to joining the military. Right, just like a lot of people give strong thoughts to a lot of things that are difficult but in reality will never happen. They convince themselves that they could do it if it weren't for this ONE thing. The one thing is always conveniently there. Instead of action we get a rant of hot topic soup like yours. But as long as "I thought about it" is prefaced, then it's…

I don't see the military as a challenge to be conquered, a privilege to participate in, or as a place to rise the ranks. I have little desire to prove how much of a man I am in the marines.

I do look up to people such as Admiral Rickover. Jocko is the type of person that makes the military appealing. There is a legacy of quality engineering and civic contribution in the past that has been decimated by the consequences of Nixon/Reagan era policies, chiefly, selling out America to billionaires.

So "convince themselves that they could do it" is a characterization that does not make sense because I don't (and most middle class people don't) see the military as an achievement. Doctor, Lawyer, or Engineer is what the middle class sees as achievement, not military. Military is strictly viewed as an act of service and a sacrifice.

> ONE thing

It's not one thing. It is the thing. The US military is famously civilian led, and the civilian leaders are an absolutely corrupt mess in complete disarray. Characterizing that as "this ONE thing" is bad faith. Saying you don't want to join an organization because the leadership sucks isn't "ONE thing." It's not a triviality. It is core to the organizations mission and execution of that mission.

> hot topic soup

If you think I'm providing hot topic soup and not a generational liberal middle class understanding of America and our place in the world, well I wish you would be a bit more open minded. The institutions that train the people that build your tools are full of people with an understanding not too dissimilar to mine. The people who work in cybersecurity and signals frequently come from the same background as me. The government has explicitly talked about how hard it is to train for cybersecurity and how hard it is to attract cybersecurity talent. That's because cybersecurity is not about domination and hierarchy. Cybersecurity is about curiosity. A rigid hierarchy with a mission of dominance is not conducive to curiosity. Curiosity is a fundamentally liberal principle so an illiberal military is going to have a hard time attracting the curious. The act of hacking is practically an act of questioning authority.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#267
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ This. Schools are doing a piss-poor job of educating people. Only 20% of schools can muster a 70% proficiency score, with the vast majority being much worse. What this indicates is a startlingly large number of students are receiving an education that holds no value whatsoever. Further, as already mentioned by someone else, the military will still use its own test as a means to determine where to place a recruit.

Isn't this the parents' faults? Educators can only mold so much with what they're given. This seemed apparent to me when I was in school. I can't imagine it's changed much.

> Isn't this the parents' faults?

Okay, a failing student is the fault of the parents. Now what?

Do you think parents want their children to fail? Failing children are generally associated with low socioeconomic status.

So, now, you have to fix low socioeconomic status. Now what?

etc.

You are correct that schools and teachers can only do so much. However, schools and teachers must also operate in the reality of what actually exists rather than what they would like.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#268

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

I was constantly failing classes in high school, but I ended up as an engineer at FANG company without breaking a sweat. My cofounder didn’t finish high school and worked as an HFT trader. People here who are judging people based on their high school accomplishments must be coming from a sheltered middle class background.

This works only because a fairly no-license environment we have in software development and stock market investments.

It won't work in places like Medicine or Army, where human lives are at stake.

There is a progression your have to work through to get to serious places, else bad things can happen to both you and many people around you.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#269
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should scare young men because drafts exist.

A draftee always has the choice to not go. Barring a tyrannical regime that sends them in as cannon fodder, they may stay in prison until the tides turn, but they will live.

How much pressure must one apply before a choice is no longer a choice?

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously have no idea how many shots are mandatory for recruits deploying It would be a significant strain on their logistics, which the us military is very good at, to let these shots be optional It's mission oriented, not politics.

Except the US military made them no longer mandatory, and even allowed discharged troops to come back. Sounds like it was a significant strain on their logistics to mandate the COVID shots, not to allow them to be optional.

The issue with optional vaccinations wasn't the poke, it was pulling soldiers or entire ships from the field. Those resources were there for a reason and either needed to be replaced or weakened our posture.

With COVID under control, and 96% of soldiers vaccinated there is no longer a need to make it mandatory.

This is what we want right? Policy based on evaluated risks and threats?

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