Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing • Hacker News Board

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#41

Post by gitfan86 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:01 PM UTC

AnthonBerg wrote: post #28

thegrim33 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the claim you've made in your comment carries exactly as much weight as the claim of the person you're replying to does, which is zero, as both of you have just typed out some generic wide-sweeping opinion about a topic without linking to a single piece of data to support your claim.

Not quite. I am armed and ready with sources as part of the game, and the statement on epistemology hardly needs qualification.

The definition that the CDC created backs up my statement. "Long COVID is not one condition. It represents many potentially overlapping entities, likely with different biological causes and different sets of risk factors and outcomes."

https://www.covid.gov/be-informed/longcovid/about#term

Any pain or psychological issue you have after covid can be categorized as "Long Covid". Which is ridiculous because if covid never happened we wouldn't expect joint pain and depression to go away. Those things existed long before covid and should have been expected to exist after covid.

Non reproduced studies that cherry pick data to fit the conclusion do not refute these facts.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#42

Post by thenerdhead » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:05 PM UTC

mstump wrote: post #37

ie21 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, to chip in: try cardio, especially running. Men loose muscle mass with age, as you are already aware, resistance training is important, but cardio should be on top of your list. I was there with you in terms of brain fog, general mental slowdown, what is called cognitive decline, and mind you, I presume we are healthy, without cognitive degeneration or serius injuries or conditions. Running 3 times per week shou…

Agree. Also testosterone. I was lucky enough to have lab work before and after getting covid twice. My T numbers halved in less than a year. I was still within the “normal range” so it took some arguing with the doctors to get a prescription for a very low dose. Within 24 hours of starting, I felt like myself again. Brain fog was gone, energy was back, my mood rebounded. No negative side effects thus far. I had tried…

The challenges here is that testosterone was found to be lower for folks with covid/long covid. So your observations add up.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-39...

> A significant proportion of male COVID-19 patients also display persistent low testosterone levels, reminiscent of absent or aberrant GnRH production, and SARS-CoV-2 has been shown to invade the brain. Taken together, these findings raise the possibility that in such patients, the GnRH system may be infected or dysfunctional, leading to the accelerated aging and cognitive deficits observed in patients with “long-COVID” or post-COVID syndrome. However, in what way and for how long GnRH neurons or their function may be affected in COVID-19 patients is still unknown.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#43

Post by thenerdhead » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:10 PM UTC

NoblePublius wrote: post #24

[flagged]

https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/j.eclinm.2024.102434/a...

Pre-existing conditions

For 111 of 194 PCC patients, we also obtained their history of pre-existing neurological/psychiatric conditions.

31 of them (27.9%) had pre-existing neurological or psychiatric conditions.

16 of them had a history of depression (n=14) and/or anxiety (n=3).

One had a suspected addiction to alcohol.

One had a history of bulimia.

Nine of them had various neurological conditions, for example, migraine, tinnitus, trigeminal neuralgia, rotatory vertigo, amyloid angiopathy, fibromyalgia, polyneuropathy.

Unfortunately, we did not acquire the information about preexisting conditions from our controls but based on their self-reported no history of neurological and psychiatric diseases, suggesting that they would have no pre-existing conditions.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#44

Post by acdha » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:18 PM UTC

gitfan86 wrote: post #41

AnthonBerg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. I am armed and ready with sources as part of the game, and the statement on epistemology hardly needs qualification.

The definition that the CDC created backs up my statement. "Long COVID is not one condition. It represents many potentially overlapping entities, likely with different biological causes and different sets of risk factors and outcomes." https://www.covid.gov/be-informed/longcovid/about#term Any pain or psychological issue you have after covid can be categorized as "Long Covid". Which is ridiculous because if covid nev…

The CDC statement does not back up your claim. Neither of the two diseases you mentioned are actually caused by anxiety or depression, and the CDC is not saying that anything you have after COVID is long COVID but rather that the real problems people are having do not have a single simple cause. This is true of many other things - consider how family history, diet, exercise, sleep, past infections, pollution, etc. all affect who develops heart problems or dementia - but if those have unambiguous symptoms, we don’t have people coming out of the woodwork to say that they’re imaginary or the result of poor moral fiber. Not everything is that easy to link to a cause - think about what we now know about tick-born diseases versus how sufferers were told they had a psychosomatic condition or weren’t eating right back in the 80s – but that only means that medical researchers need more time and data to understand the very real things patients are experiencing.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#45

Post by gitfan86 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:41 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #44

gitfan86 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition that the CDC created backs up my statement. "Long COVID is not one condition. It represents many potentially overlapping entities, likely with different biological causes and different sets of risk factors and outcomes." https://www.covid.gov/be-informed/longcovid/about#term Any pain or psychological issue you have after covid can be categorized as "Long Covid". Which is ridiculous because if covid nev…

The CDC statement does not back up your claim. Neither of the two diseases you mentioned are actually caused by anxiety or depression, and the CDC is not saying that anything you have after COVID is long COVID but rather that the real problems people are having do not have a single simple cause. This is true of many other things - consider how family history, diet, exercise, sleep, past infections, pollution, etc. al…

So if the real problems people are having "do not have a single simple cause", why are we calling it "Long Covid"?

The name implies that there is a known cause, and the diagnosis IS Long Covid.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#46

Post by catlover76 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:51 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #12

Since 2019 I've been: - Vaccinated for COVID once - Infected with COVID 3 times - Infected with RSV once - Infected with unknown ?? upper respiratory, two times. I am absolutely less "sharp". It feels like both my cognitive and physical ability have taken a serious blow. I'm far less creative, less excited about work, less interested in challenging topics, and less capable of solving complex problems. I will sometime…

[dead]

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#47

Post by GuB-42 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 7:57 PM UTC

I am somewhat skeptical about the long covid thing. Not that the disease doesn't exist of course, but of the relationship with covid specifically.

To put it simply, we all got in contact with covid at some point. Some were asymptomatic, some mistook it for a cold, and some were confirmed cases. Plus there are vaccines, that are said not to be as effective at preventing long covid than they are at preventing severe (accute) covid. Some even say the vaccine itself can cause long covid-like symptoms.

So how many of these case really "long covid" and not just a condition no one really took into account before a global pandemic affected us all in a relatively short amount of time. There are some conditions that are known to get triggered with any kind of infection (ex: EBV), or other kind of disturbances. Covid is one of them, but so is the flu, or anything else really.

And then, there were the lockdowns, raise of remote work and all the resulting social changes. People took some weight, others lost some, sleep patterns, eating habits, etc... have changed for many people. All these could be potential triggers for some condition that while not caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, is a result of the pandemic.

I say all that because of a personal experience. In late 2020, I got unwell, very unspecific symptoms which felt mostly psychosomatic, and it lingered for months, with ups and down, and a global trend towards improvement. When I talk about it, "long covid" is usually the first suggestion, and I would believe it, except I didn't get covid at the time. No contact, no symptom, PCR and IG tests negative, etc... it was before I got vaccinated. I finally ended up getting covid for (I think) the first time last year, and it was a typical, milder than average case, with none of the "unwell" symptoms resurfacing. I still don't know what happened to me, and why, though the lifestyle changes caused by the pandemic may have something to do with it. But had it happened after a covid infection, I am sure it would have been attributed to it.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#48

Post by rubicon33 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 8:29 PM UTC

ie21 wrote: post #32

rubicon33 wrote: post #12

Since 2019 I've been: - Vaccinated for COVID once - Infected with COVID 3 times - Infected with RSV once - Infected with unknown ?? upper respiratory, two times. I am absolutely less "sharp". It feels like both my cognitive and physical ability have taken a serious blow. I'm far less creative, less excited about work, less interested in challenging topics, and less capable of solving complex problems. I will sometime…

Hey, to chip in: try cardio, especially running. Men loose muscle mass with age, as you are already aware, resistance training is important, but cardio should be on top of your list. I was there with you in terms of brain fog, general mental slowdown, what is called cognitive decline, and mind you, I presume we are healthy, without cognitive degeneration or serius injuries or conditions. Running 3 times per week shou…

Re: running / activity...

I've always been a runner of sorts, but not super consistent. On average I would say I run 2-3 miles a week. But that could mean 15 miles in 1 week, followed by 2-3 weeks of low, or even zero running.

My main problem is consistency and I can only hazard a guess that its consistency that produces the really beneficial effects? Because on those weeks where I do run a lot, I generally don't feel much better. In fact, in the last 2 years I've started feeling worse. Beat down, tired, and not energized by the run.

I've recently tried going from distance running (5 miles) to speed running. I'll run two miles, in a 6:30 pace, rather than 5 miles in a 8:00 pace.

The result is actually a much more brutal feeling, with much heavier breathing, and much more soreness. But surprisingly, I actually feel a little bit of that positive feeling. I've only JUST started doing this so its too early to tell, but the really high cardio and heavy breathing seems like it may have some potential to reverse some of the negatives I've accrued.

To sum it up - I've actually always been active and I'm in good/ok shape, but I generally am not really pushing it. I run distance, not speed. I rest a lot. Maybe I'm just not active ENOUGH.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#49

Post by rubicon33 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 8:32 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #19

rubicon33 wrote: post #12

Since 2019 I've been: - Vaccinated for COVID once - Infected with COVID 3 times - Infected with RSV once - Infected with unknown ?? upper respiratory, two times. I am absolutely less "sharp". It feels like both my cognitive and physical ability have taken a serious blow. I'm far less creative, less excited about work, less interested in challenging topics, and less capable of solving complex problems. I will sometime…

Vaccinated three times, had it twice. The first time, no long term effects. The second time, well... I think it is getting better, but I feel you. Stuff I know I know the solution to, I know I can do in the blonk of an eye just seems to be hidden behind some wall of fog. Takes sheer willpower to get through that, then it is done in a heart beat. After that, my energy seems to be gone. Wasn't a problem at work, for no…

That's interesting because after the first time I got COVID, I honestly felt OK. It was after the second time that I felt like "hmm, have I fully recovered?"

After the third time, that's when I felt for SURE I was struggling relative to before. Granted, I've had other infections over the last 3 years so it's hard to say it was all COVID.

Re: Long Covid is associated with cognitive slowing

#50

Post by rubicon33 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 8:35 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #38

rubicon33 wrote: post #12

Since 2019 I've been: - Vaccinated for COVID once - Infected with COVID 3 times - Infected with RSV once - Infected with unknown ?? upper respiratory, two times. I am absolutely less "sharp". It feels like both my cognitive and physical ability have taken a serious blow. I'm far less creative, less excited about work, less interested in challenging topics, and less capable of solving complex problems. I will sometime…

> I'm far less creative, less excited about work, less interested in challenging topics, and less capable of solving complex problems. So, just to point this out: none of those symptoms are remotely unique to Long Covid, or any other disorder. They correlate with real/known/unsurprising conditions like depression, alcoholism, aging and even stuff like poor diet even more strongly than with covid; and of course they'r…

Yup, that's totally fair and correct.

I honestly do not know if its related to COVID or if I'm just getting older and my body / mind are finally starting the inevitable downward spiral that takes place over the next 30-40 years.

It's hard to say for sure. All I can say is, relative to who I was in 2019 I feel like I'm easily 50% of that person both physically and mentally. Maybe that's "natural" for someone in their mid-30s, but to me it feels a little accelerated.