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I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

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Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#401

Post by tzs »

junaru wrote: post #204
dagss wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's 2 topics that need to be held apart here: 1) Limiting number of children in rich countries. This is what your links talk about I think. Yes, perhaps there is a taboo in place here. Is that relevant to sustainability crisis though? Population is already declining in rich countries, quite naturally. 2) Limiting number of children in poorer countries. Well, as in the article pointed to in a sibling comme…

> are you not saying that it may be better that 10 poor people are not born, than for rich people to do minor changes to their lifestyle? I definitely would say that and would argue it needs to be way more than 10. If you want to solve manmade climate change you need to solve the demand for goods that cause it. You lower demand by increasing the the supply (can't do that because that increases the emissions you try b…

> The problem with these "minor changes to their lifestyle" is that they need to accommodate exponentially growing population that already is a magnitude or more higher than persons who need to adjust.

It was approximately exponential up until around 200ish AD, fell below exponential for a few hundred years, then was above exponential for around 600 years (the growth rate was going up approximately linearly), had a period where it varied and even was slightly negative, and then around 1500ish entered a period where the growth rate was increasing almost exponentially. That lasted to around 1960, and since then the growth rate rapidly.

Here's a graph of the growth rate from 4000 BC to 2023 [1] from the data here [2].

I was curious what it is called when the growth rate itself is going up exponentially, but utterly failed to craft a search in Google that worked for me. I then tried ChatGPT (the free version) and at first it was just wrong. I reiterated that I want to know what it is called when the growth rate is going up exponentially, not when the growth is exponential. It apologized and told me it is called "exponential growth of the growth rate" or "exponential acceleration".

I tried to verify that it is called "exponential acceleration" with Google, but failed.

[1] https://imgur.com/gallery/GRPBVg2

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#402

Post by BodyCulture »

jhoechtl wrote: post #249
pk-protect-ai wrote: post #145

I no longer worry. I'm extremely pessimistic about the impending climate change. I believe Sabine isn't pessimistic enough about what to anticipate. Consider the tundra methane emissions and the explosive release of methane-hydrates from the oceans, along with water vapor, a potent greenhouse gas. The disaster looming over all ecosystems (a mass extinction event) that will happen in decades and the doom-phase could l…

I am glad that I survived oil outage, sour rain, the Ozone hole, mass famine because of overpopulation. All in a lifetime. I must have had sheer luck.

[flagged]

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#403

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

LightBug1 wrote: post #382
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #328

I never worried particularly much about climate change, but just to hedge my bets for my kids I moved to northern Europe. For the most part it's just equated to milder (= bearable) Winters and nicer summers up here. I guess we also spend a fair bit on moving to renewables up here - Finland achieved energy self sufficiency last year thanks to a good combination of nuclear + solar + hydro. If I were an ideologue in eit…

"Self recommending! Come to Finland and help us build a stronger democracy, whatever that means to you. " How are you finding life as an enviromental migrant?

Great! Much nicer than Boston.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#404

Post by defrost »

timschmidt wrote: post #396
defrost wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had OG Einstein and Mozart and Erdős and many others before we hit 5 billion. People are having fewer children, as living conditions, education, and acces to TV increases the reproduction rate falls. Ideally we'll level out at 6 billion or so. You haven't given any good reason why the earth should squeeze as many upright aquatic apes on it as possible yet.

> We had OG Einstein and Mozart and Erdős Oh good, we don't ever need any more then. /s > Ideally we'll level out at 6 billion or so. I doubt there's any single ideal population size, because the impact of each individual varies so widely. In the future, when we're all living 100% solar powered regenerative net-carbon-negative lives, the problem will be that there aren't enough people to offset warming caused by volc…

> Oh good, we don't ever need any more then. /s

Always handy, the point (lean back, look up) is we don't need 80 billion as a prerequisite to have more - that's a weak (to be generous) argument.

> I doubt there's any single ideal population size, ..

It's bounded by an upper limit of humans living like turkeys in a turkey farm and tossing the weak in the chipper to blend back in with the feed . . . is that your ideal mode of life?

The Earth is nice example of a complex system with many interconnect parts maintaining a relatively stable for millenia feedback regulated environment.

What is the argument for pushing human population to 80 billion, and at what cost does that come in terms of human living standards and the other non human life we share the planet with?

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#405

Post by willis936 »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #6

Okay, but what now?

Prepare for mid-size nations near the equator to launch stratosphere aerosol injection programs against the will of the rest of the world and be party to the largest experiment humans will ever conduct.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#406

Post by pk-protect-ai »

jokoon wrote: post #264

I live in the south of france, and I really need to move to a cooler region in france. Summer are very long, nights are hot, makes it hard to sleep well. I don't have enough money to install AC. Mobile AC is too noisy. I have been postponing for 4 years now. I am reading The Ministry Of The Future, it's a great book. India will be the first to suffer from this.

Madagascar and lot of countries in Africa already suffering.

https://reliefweb.int/disaster/dr-2018-000141-mdg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp_UaZMeyCs&t=3s

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#407

Post by donum »

layer8 wrote: post #384
donum wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole Western world? It seems mostly men, not women: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1ac0...

The fact that those charts show Germany leaning considerably more conservative than the US makes me skeptical of their methodology.

"US data is respondent's state ideology. Other countries show support for liberal and conservative parties" It shows increasing disagreement between women and men on the matter. Me2 and BLM showed how much is going wrong in society and it reached many people around the world. edit: additional link on the matter: https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-gender-gap-young-men-w...

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#408

Post by sgt101 »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #225
sgt101 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my observations the current rightwing meme is that women in rich countries haven't had sufficient numbers of children and measures to drive increased population should be put in place. This is congruent with removing women's bodily autonomy, banning abortion and banning or restricting birth control of all types.

> From my observations the current rightwing meme is that women in rich countries haven't had sufficient numbers of children and measures to drive increased population should be put in place. When you get to the far right wing, it's not just about "are there sufficient numbers of children?" but "Is my favoured population subgroup having sufficient numbers of children?" i.e. racism

Oh sure - there's a lot of racism in this position.

It was advocated by the Nazi's in the 1930's for a start.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#409

Post by wkjagt »

graphe wrote: post #393
wkjagt wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s more than just humans and their tech here to worry about though. I get so depressed when I hear people describe the gravity of climate change only in terms of the chance of survival of us humans.

If climate change didn't affect humans we wouldn't care. Did we care when the skies started to glow at night due to air pollution and destroyed the ecology, or the importation of European honeybees, or effects of toxins on fauna. No it was "marvelous" a "triumph against nature". The ONLY question to most people is: what will happen to me from it, if it will, why me changing anything will help?

I’m not disagreeing. This is exactly how it is. I’m just saying that this way of thinking (not yours, but the one you describe) is depressing.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#410

Post by trenchgun »

BodyCulture wrote: post #397
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #328

I never worried particularly much about climate change, but just to hedge my bets for my kids I moved to northern Europe. For the most part it's just equated to milder (= bearable) Winters and nicer summers up here. I guess we also spend a fair bit on moving to renewables up here - Finland achieved energy self sufficiency last year thanks to a good combination of nuclear + solar + hydro. If I were an ideologue in eit…

This is an illusion. There is no safe place, you can’t escape the reality of global warming by moving to another place.

There is no safe place in general, with or without climate change.

But you can for sure mitigate most of the climate change risks by moving to anothe place.

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