U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#131

Post by walterbell » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:18 AM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #62

eximius wrote: post #19

Oh good, so we continue to exploit the uneducated for our military so they won't realize how little we actually support veterans until it's too late.

> exploit the uneducated for our military Just the navy, who instituted a similar change on Friday. This article about the army is from 2022 and the army reverted the change a week later. High school completion is a requirement again. It remains to be seen if the navy makes it the fully week.

Thanks - article on Army reversal: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/06/30/army-swiftly-...

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#132

Post by spoonjim » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:23 AM UTC

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

Even with a decent IQ, failure to finish high school usually indicates very low commitment / time preference / overall “with it” ness. It’s not a good thing that this is the future of our military but not at all surprised that the military is having recruiting problems.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#133

Post by dotnet00 » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:24 AM UTC

halJordan wrote: post #52

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

Everything covered in high school was retaught within 1 year at my university to bring everyone up to a common baseline level. They have students from all over the world.

It really isn't years worth of useful knowledge, the military is capable of giving recruits the knowledge they need much more quickly, especially given the much more disciplined/controlled environment involved.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#134

Post by dmurray » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:25 AM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #126

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to b…

85 IQ really isn't that low. It's one standard deviation below average, so about 16% of people are below that.

In your average high school class of 30 people, the 4 stupidest would be rejected by the military on these grounds (assume the bottom 1/31 have such severe developmental difficulties they can't even attend a normal high school).

Doesn't that seem like quite a high bar?

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#135

Post by popcalc » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:25 AM UTC

freefrog334433 wrote: post #72

langsoul-com wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really that simple for something as complex as the military. Look at mercenaries, get paid shit tons, still always need more.

Could they learn from the mining industry? Terrible job, long hours in the middle of no-where (in Australia) and poor family life, but the salaries and benefits are huge. There is no shortage of people wanting to work in the mining industry.

Commercial maritime is the equivalent of this for young south-east Asians.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#136

Post by gettodachoppa » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:27 AM UTC

Syonyk wrote: post #20

wtfwhateven wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

On June 1, 2022, the Marines tweeted out a helmet with rainbow bullet tips for Pride Month: https://globalnews.ca/news/8888090/marines-rainbow-bullets-p... is one such link, you can find others. The US Army 2021 video, "Emma, The Calling," is exactly what I described: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8-Yslv4PME And the "Army sees sharp decline in white recruits." https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/10/army-se…

1. It's not happening, that's just a far-right conspiracy theory

2. It happened, but it was just an isolated incident

3. It's happening, and that's a good thing

4. It's always been happening, so what? No one ever claimed it never happened, that's just a far-right conspiracy theory.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#137

Post by FwarkALark » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:29 AM UTC

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#138

Post by Gud » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:37 AM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #126

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to b…

A friend of mine I met while serving in Afghanistan,

He was working for the Department of Agriculture, trying to get the Afghan farmers to grow saffron instead of poppy. He was a professor in agronomy and would help his students back home in the US with their assignments.

He had signed up for the US army and ended up serving in the Special Forces in Vietnam for 2 years. He dropped out of school when he was 13.

In my opinion, the military should be a second chance for a country’s citizens, who have for some reason slipped through the cracks.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#139

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:39 AM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #126

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to b…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#140

Post by closewith » Sun, Jan 28, 2024, 9:40 AM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #134

nindalf wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to b…

85 IQ really isn't that low. It's one standard deviation below average, so about 16% of people are below that. In your average high school class of 30 people, the 4 stupidest would be rejected by the military on these grounds (assume the bottom 1/31 have such severe developmental difficulties they can't even attend a normal high school). Doesn't that seem like quite a high bar?

No, it probably should be higher given how complex even bog standard infantry roles have become.