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U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

military.com

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Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#121

Post by rollcat »

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

100x this. One of the smartest, most compassionate, successful, and resourceful people I've ever met, is a high school dropout. Even the story of that dropout alone is amazing (he managed to secure a huge grant for the said school, and decided there are more important/interesting things to do next).

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#124

Post by drewcoo »

b4ke wrote: post #53

They should institute a voluntary conscripted amnesty/asylum for those who entered into the country and are on immigration parole. This program could allow for retroactive application to spouses/children (no extended family transferability until completion of service contract). There would be no need for sign-on bonus, you could add additional qualifications for g.i. benefits in the form of naturalization. It would r…

> They should institute a voluntary conscripted amnesty/asylum

Conscription by definition is involuntary.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#125

Post by reactordev »

orf wrote: post #97
reactordev wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate.” The problem is, if you aren’t there on graduation day, you don’t get that proof of paper saying you know what you know. So before you go and put people down without context in their lives, you should be aware that there are dozens…

> The problem is, if you aren’t there on graduation day, you don’t get that proof of paper saying you know what you know. A flat tyre, or the flu, on graduation day doesn’t mean the last X years of your life have been wasted and you don’t get a diploma…

Moving to a new state a couple months before graduation and the old school drags their feet on transfer papers will certainly make one miss graduating and not get a diploma. Illness is another. If you miss out on last quarter because of an illness you were hospitalized for. Don’t be so obtuse. Obviously if you sleep in and miss graduation day, you can still stop by the office and get your diploma.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#126

Post by nindalf »

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to be sent to a war zone.

So intelligence is important for military service but a person’s completion of high school isn’t an indication of low intelligence. They may have dropped out for any other reason. It’s entirely possible that they may flourish in the structured environment the military offers.

It’s fair to ask if the IQ test is a good measure of intelligence, or if it’s measuring something else. But in this context, it’s measuring something that is strongly correlated to success as a solider.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#127

Post by logicchains »

nindalf wrote: post #126
klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

That standardised test administered by the US military has some history. The idea was that folks who were below an 85IQ would be harder to train. During the Vietnam war they tried abandoning the requirement and the results were sad. It cost the military a lot more in remedial training, but the real tragedy is that these folks died at 3 times the rate of people who would have passed the test. They weren’t cut out to b…

It would be really fascinating to see a graph of IQ vs chance of being killed in a war (normalised for people in the same role); would it continuously be increasing, or would there be diminishing or even negative returns to IQ beyond a certain point?

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#128

Post by msk-lywenn »

Similar thing in France for the CRS a while back. CRS are a special kind of police that can be dispatched anywhere quickly in big packs. They're mostly here to "handle protests". They had trouble hiring so they lowered the required test score from 10/20 to 8/20.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#129

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #99
klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

>I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow inferior or stupid people. I took it the opposite way. High schools are designed to provide a bare floor of knowledge a citizen should achieve. The top side may be extremely competitive, but the bar for passing high school is meant to be low. Someone who can't pass that and doesn't have developmental issues likely have environm…

> High schools are designed to provide a bare floor of knowledge a citizen should achieve.

I agree with your general point, but I don't know about high school per se.

I quit school at age 14, got my GED, and this was one of the best decisions I had ever made. I feel like there should be more options for people to leave the system early, once they've attained that bare floor of knowledge. (Which, for a sufficiently motivated child, could in all seriousness be at age 11 or 12. The GED test was laughably easy, and it still amazes me that people sit through four years of school for that.)

FWIW, the military frowned upon GEDs, often requiring a waiver, but allowed GED holders to enlist.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#130

Post by refurb »

thret wrote: post #29
hipadev23 wrote: post #10

If you want more recruits, you simply need to pay more.

US military are notoriously underpaid. Increase the base pay, increase the long-term incentives. They're not working for tips.

They aren’t underpaid, at least not on the low end.

A raw recruit (E1) gets $23,000 per year. Housing, food, work clothing and healthcare is paid for. After tax, it’s like ~$1,500 in completely discretionary income. This is why you get 19 year old new recruits buying new sports cars. They can afford it. The smart ones start socking away money while they are young.

A new officer (O1) gets $43,000 per year. If they are married they can live off base and get a housing allowance. If lucky enough to get stationed in SF, that’s another $4,017 per month. So just base pay and allowance is $91,000. And the housing allowance is tax free, so it’s equivalent to making more than $100,000 per year.

Then add on top sign on or enlistment bonuses especially for in demand MOSs, relocation allowances, etc.

Then you put in 20 years and you get a pension you can live on and healthcare for the rest of your life.

They aren’t making Silicon Valley money but it puts most members in firmly middle class territory.

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