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U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

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Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#91

Post by reactordev »

halJordan wrote: post #52
klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

“The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate.”

The problem is, if you aren’t there on graduation day, you don’t get that proof of paper saying you know what you know. So before you go and put people down without context in their lives, you should be aware that there are dozens of reasons why someone who aced high school - didn’t get a diploma.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#92

Post by solatic »

hipadev23 wrote: post #10

If you want more recruits, you simply need to pay more.

As an ex-soldier, I'm sympathetic, but it's hard to do that when the military's budget is already so high. Fixing military budgets internally is a multi-pronged problem, with any such proposal taking multiple years to execute, none of which are low-risk / high-chance of success.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#93

Post by Simon_ORourke »

This has all the historical overtones of McNamara's Morons [1], and those guys were far more likely to get killed or seriously injured in combat, basically because they were too dumb to process events quickly enough under pressure. While having (or not having) a high school diploma isn't necessarily a measure of intelligence, or lack thereof, it's a good enough proxy. I just hope anyone calling in an artillery strike in any future conflict can read a map first.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#94

Post by archagon »

dimgl wrote: post #42
BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or if you’re a young man who wants to, you know, live.

This should scare young men because drafts exist.

A draftee always has the choice to not go. Barring a tyrannical regime that sends them in as cannon fodder, they may stay in prison until the tides turn, but they will live.

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#96

Post by freedomben »

randomdata wrote: post #58
halJordan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

> The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. The vast majority of states require that you be at least 17, and often 18, before you can choose to stop with said education. Everyone the military is willing to accept on other fronts has the literal years spent in school that you speak of. If there is a gap, it's only on the order of a few months, if that…

Right. My best friend in high school dropped out, and later joined the army after getting a GED. I dropped out as well but got a diploma from an alternative school for adults and joined.

Everyone I know who did not complete high School got within a year or two. Paradoxically, it was the smartest people I know who dropped out. None of our reasons were academic. A combination of social and financial

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#97

Post by orf »

reactordev wrote: post #91
halJordan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

“The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate.” The problem is, if you aren’t there on graduation day, you don’t get that proof of paper saying you know what you know. So before you go and put people down without context in their lives, you should be aware that there are dozens…

> The problem is, if you aren’t there on graduation day, you don’t get that proof of paper saying you know what you know.

A flat tyre, or the flu, on graduation day doesn’t mean the last X years of your life have been wasted and you don’t get a diploma…

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#98

Post by freedomben »

Dalewyn wrote: post #90
halJordan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. People not having that knowledge means they will not be able to participate. It's not about whether they will be smart enough to learn; it's about the fact that they will have to be taught. There's no foundation to build on, there's no axiomatic knowledge we can rely on. People who haven't graduated high scho…

>The problem is that a high school education represents literally years of knowledge a person has accumulated. A high school diploma only signifies the individual was approved by the indoctrination of public education, unless you're the handful that had private or homeschooling which still doesn't mean much academically (see below). Incidentally, in the US we have what's called the GED[1]. The GED can be taken at any…

I don't disagree, but I do think it's important to note that any two high school experiences can differ drastically. For someone who is barely making it through high school academically, their high school diploma may represent a basic level of math and other subjects. For someone else who is in advanced or AP classes, their high school diploma is going to be substantially more advanced than what the GED is. The GED is a fairly basic measurement. I don't think I would consider it high school equivalent, although when there is a requirement for a high school diploma, it is absolutely true that a GED will nearly always suffice, so from that perspective they are equivalent.

Edit: also worth noting, is that I know of people who have graduated high school who probably could not pass a GED. It is definitely possible in the right school to coast your way to graduation, even if you would not meet the normal expectations. So in those cases, a GED would be superior to a diploma. All of this I think indicates that high school diploma is becoming somewhat meaningless

Re: U.S. army drops requirement for high school diploma (2022)

#99

Post by johnnyanmac »

klipklop wrote: post #24

A bit of sensationalism going on. They still have to pass a standardize test that mostly proves they have an IQ suitable for military service. There are people that could be a great soldier/servicemember that didn’t make it through high school. Some will flourish under a military environment that failed out of high school. I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow infer…

>I don’t really like people assuming somebody that didn’t graduate high school are somehow inferior or stupid people.

I took it the opposite way. High schools are designed to provide a bare floor of knowledge a citizen should achieve. The top side may be extremely competitive, but the bar for passing high school is meant to be low.

Someone who can't pass that and doesn't have developmental issues likely have environmental issues to address. So having someone be exploited by the government to fight instead of improve that environment feels scummy.

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