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I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

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Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#81
My personal take, witch I call a rational one:

- I choose for MANY reasons, climate is one of them, not the topmost but still one of them, to leave a big city toward the mountains, choosing a place locally hydrogeologically stable (meaning no landslide can reach my home, no flood as well, nothing tall enough to fall onto it and so on);

- I still IGNORE both the climate change and the climate "deniers" narrative because I consider both PROPAGANDA. I mean I do not care if actual climate change, I see well (meaning it exists no extra proof needed for me), is due to anthropic activities or natural cycles or both in various percentage simply because even if the cause is 100% anthropic and we can cease now all relevant activities this would not produce significant results in less than SOME centuries, simply no matter the causes we need to ADAPT;

Now the biggest issue: both parties the "climate scared" and the "climate deniers" spit emotions but reject rationality. Most climate scared gossip about adding rooftop solar (typically while they live, in apartments), need to ditch cars for walking or cycling nearby in 15' cities (typically refusing the argument that anyone eat, in cities and in countryside, but in cities live many so there is a big need of food and no production, meaning that for allowing people to live in 15' cities a big and typically not green logistic much bigger than the countryside is needed) while most climate deniers state we can go on classic diesel for 500+ years rejecting tha claim that banally we experience raw materials issues since some years with less and less new big discovery an year after another an even if we have still much oil changing away from it take decades.

Long story short people do not want any real change, so one act as classic reactionaries, other as classic futurists who dream a future, but refuse to really think and design it to make it real.

My take is simple: we need to relocate an enormous mass of humans from some now inhabited areas to some others, not tomorrow morning but also not for the next century, and such big change means typically wars, disasters, famine and so on, planning and moving calmly a cohort at a time means SOME chances to get it done without enormous amount of spilled blood. Very little is done in that sense. The probable result is that nothing change until the immediate emergency level where things get done in a rush, some profit very much, many starve and die. The best I can is try to be as much as I can aside. I do not have a personal space station, fully autonomous and capable of rebuild itself when needed to watch from the orbit so...

There is no point wasting nerve energy for a fact I can't deal with more than that. There is no point in trying convincing a mass of Lebonian crowd (cfr. Gustave Le Bon writing on the crowds) who is actually already polarized in two opposite groups, already fighting each others.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#82
post #79
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused as to how discouraging procreation is racist?

LOL. You wrote a comment on how India is the main problem not the west (either now flagged or deleted). You singled out a race as being the problem.

I didn't single out a specific race, I think, I just mentioned that it was that specific region of the world where the problem was located. As far as I'm aware it was nothing to do with discrimination because of a specific characteristic (which is the definition of racism). It was just that population growth in that region was very large combined with a high per-capita CO2 footprint.

Many NGOs are actively trying to increase the availability of birth control in such regions, they are aware of the problem with unplanned pregnancy in those parts of the world. I strongly doubt there's any racism behind it.

https://www.cgdev.org/blog/access-contraception-global-devel...

While in the west population growth is relatively slow and we still have a high per-capita CO2 footprint.

I guess I unintentionally touched a taboo subject (racism) that's not permitted by the current moral orthodoxy, which is no different to religion in the end? I hope I'm correct about this.

I don't really care if my posts are flagged or even if I get banned from this site completely, I am exercising my 1st Amendment protected freedom of speech rights. It's just that on the Internet every forum is privately owned, there is no "public square" here, and thus all are subject to moderation and censorship.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many studies over years that some countries are net winners (i.e. more arable land in higher latitude etc). And sometimes winning is simply your competitors doing worse (i.e. some countries need to divert more resources than others). Competition increasingly > cooperation in geopolitics.

Do these studies consider collapsing supply chains and unequal global fossil resource distribution necessary for food security beyond arable land? Because modern agriculture sure won't do without phosphorus supply from Morocco. Is the local fauna and flora diverse and robust enough to adapt to rapidly changing ecosystems? Can those "net winners" build their MRI machines, when lethal wet bulb temperatures close rare e…

Not "woke" climate change only studies designed to propagandize / mitigate climate change. But read enough disparate industry analysis and you can connect the dots. i.e. up here in Canada, we'll gain arable land with receding tundra, we have large reserve of every mineral you can imagine. Shit hits the fan, supply chains get disrupted, we will tear up indigenous ecosystems to process rare earth and play to our geoeconomic strengths while poor global south chokes from web bulb. We'll burn extremely poluting tar sands oil / discover more coal veins to gasify into fertilzer. We'll gain transit dues when North West Passage becomes reliably passable. Geographically isolated, we'll have large oceans and militant US to drown/shoot climate refugees. On balance, we have potential do significantly better when everyone else does worse. That's not pleasant, that's not what anyone respectable would write about, but when things get bad, that will be reality. Some winners can win big, or at least much more than they (and others) lose. And I'll be walking around winter in shorts, angry that I spent 100s on a nice winter jacket and feel bad for rest of world. Like that's not going to be the narrative being sold. But as soon as the economic benefits come, people who benefit will shrug, and maybe do performative protest. But in the back of their minds, they'll appreciate their good fortunes.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#84
post #81

My personal take, witch I call a rational one: - I choose for MANY reasons, climate is one of them, not the topmost but still one of them, to leave a big city toward the mountains, choosing a place locally hydrogeologically stable (meaning no landslide can reach my home, no flood as well, nothing tall enough to fall onto it and so on); - I still IGNORE both the climate change and the climate "deniers" narrative becau…

>I still IGNORE both the climate change and the climate "deniers" narrative because I consider both PROPAGANDA.

I choose to ignore the majority of experts in the field as well as the people on facebook equally! I'm so enlightened!

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these studies consider collapsing supply chains and unequal global fossil resource distribution necessary for food security beyond arable land? Because modern agriculture sure won't do without phosphorus supply from Morocco. Is the local fauna and flora diverse and robust enough to adapt to rapidly changing ecosystems? Can those "net winners" build their MRI machines, when lethal wet bulb temperatures close rare e…

Not "woke" climate change only studies designed to propagandize / mitigate climate change. But read enough disparate industry analysis and you can connect the dots. i.e. up here in Canada, we'll gain arable land with receding tundra, we have large reserve of every mineral you can imagine. Shit hits the fan, supply chains get disrupted, we will tear up indigenous ecosystems to process rare earth and play to our geoeco…

Lol. Fair enough!

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#86

Weird. I used to worry about climate change and now I don’t. I guess the world has a way of finding its equilibrium. I do however worry about the accidental introduction of invasive species and diseases, which seems to be accelerating (see: citrus greening disease).

> Weird. I used to worry about climate change and now I don’t.

That's funny! I was going to start my post with the exact same sentence!

But for a totally different reason: I'm now convinced that there is no stopping the massive destruction of the natural environemnt. A much MUCH bigger problem than that of the climate alone.

I'm not a "doomer", I'm a "realist". It's clear at this point that the world's ownership class is NOT going to allow any significant mitigation of petroleum use.

The situation will continue unabated until all of the worst predictions, and many more not foreseen, come to bear.

So, I've learned to take this in stride, like with gun ownership: most gun deaths in the US are suicide. As more and more gun owners shoot themselves, this is the only mitigation to this crisis.

This will be the same for industrial distruction of our environment, including the climate. The only way it's going to mitigate is when the natural consequences come to bear and destroy a good part of the world population.

Of course, there's always "citrus greening disease" to worry about 8-)

The excuses people are willing to tell themselves will prevent any meaningful responce to the crisis... Thus, the natural consequences will occur...

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#87
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tell other people (especially if you're in a developing country) not to have too many children That’s my bullshit detector. All of the friends heavily engaged in global fight, to the point of leading a 500-people EU startup on ecology… have finally changed their minds and have children. My bullshit detector is, so is ecology more important for you than immigration? Because for me, if you use immigration in parallel…

The instinct to procreate is obviously very powerful? Also increasing use of birth control in developing countries can improve the situation?

This won't work. You have no instrument on actually limiting child birth and no one ever will have it. While some nations might listen to that advice, others simply won't. Then what?

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#88
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't know and frankly, it does not matter. In my day job, I trace ecological changes over time in landscapes by reading a very localised sediment core. Over time, this knowledge builds, piece by piece, to build a complex tapestry of what was. It's like building a functional database that then fuels positive action. If you want to check out the data see: https://apps.neotomadb.org/explorer/ You can only do what you…

>the little things do add up

This is the first thing that anyone who has actually studied historical societal change would have to disagree with.

In fact, history almost completely shows that organizing one another and acting strategically in unison is the only hope, because there is effectively zero evidence of the "little things" just happening to add up.

In conclusion, you are absolutely full of it. You either don't know you're wrong because you're lying about having done the research, or you did the research and you are intentionally lying about the results.

Re: I used to not worry about climate change. Now I do [video]

#90
post #81

My personal take, witch I call a rational one: - I choose for MANY reasons, climate is one of them, not the topmost but still one of them, to leave a big city toward the mountains, choosing a place locally hydrogeologically stable (meaning no landslide can reach my home, no flood as well, nothing tall enough to fall onto it and so on); - I still IGNORE both the climate change and the climate "deniers" narrative becau…

>I still IGNORE both the climate change and the climate "deniers" narrative because I consider both PROPAGANDA. I choose to ignore the majority of experts in the field as well as the people on facebook equally! I'm so enlightened!

In what field? Because what is on the headlines is in the field of PRs, witch are the same kind of those who nourish certain cohort of "believers" like those of the flat earth. If you analyze their readers you'll find they are the very same ascientific kind.

Beside that, beside the classic Francis Galton experiment, beside Gustave Le Bon observation about the crowds, also the experts crowds, beside the history of Eduard Bernays campaigns, like those for the tobacco industry who makes many doctors believe smoking is good for health, try to LOGICALLY reason with your own knowledge. When the "modern climate change" start to happen for you? Perhaps DECADES ago? That how much "anthropic emissions" was made since them? How much can they change in the near future? Beside that ALL TIMES you here "we need to be quick" what does it means in practice? Maybe doing something before having the time to reason about up front?

If for you the "climate believers" narrative is The Truth and that they are "all the experts" while the others are just foolish unacculturated people from some social network well, you are a believer of some kind of religion, not differently than the believers of the flat earth.

Not counting that, your recipe than is what? Remain sit watching the TV about how important is switching to a heat pump, perhaps without doing it in person, just hearing and reverberating to others? For me there is no enlightenment of wokeism but mere logic: I choose to move from a big city to a mountain area, I built a new home so with the current design and tech, not because "it's my contribution to a cause" but because summing MANY aspects I've decide that's the most opportune/wise choice I have. Meanwhile I've also put a modern wood stove (meaning airtight, sucking air from the outside to ventilate the flame chamber) in the new home, because while I have p.v. and a small LFP storage I prefer having a more reliable backup WHEN, not if, I'll need it. I'm an engineer and I call it logic. Nothing more, nothing less while observing in modern gear how much "not at all experts" are those who have designed most of such gears simply because they do not have them in person at home, so they ignore countless real world cases not easy evidently to grasp at a project level. They dumb thing like a p.v. "integrated" EV charger that actually hyper-flawed because those who have designed it have never try to use it to actually really trying charging from p.v.

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