Live data from Hacker News

Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

arstechnica.com

11–20 of 107 posts

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#11

So, Microsoft would use Linux boxes..

When they bought hotmail, it took them years to migrate off the freebsd boxes that was running it -- they had several failures, and when they finally succeeded, they needed several times as many NT boxes as the original BSD boxes.

I would guess that the supernode software was written by skype long before the acquisition (they were running their own supernodes, despite what the article claims -- although not as many, and most supernodes were users), and microsoft hasn't had the chance or the reason to port them to Windows yet.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#13
MS using Linux to run their business. That says it all.

A company with more money than it knows what to do with, acting desperately to save itself from obsolescence.

Skype was flawed from the outset, being non-transparent (about how the network is set up, turning machines into supernodes withtout permission, and the encryption they use). It's all closed. Why? You can't verify it's well-designed. Now it's worse. Do I want MS routing my calls? Scanning every file transfer? Being able to peek at any video?

No thanks. That's not their role.

There are other true decentralised P2P Video/oiceOIP solutions. People now know that free calls, even video calls, through the internet are feasible, even without having technical knowledge.

Right now, use Skype. But it will not hold the market when more robust, flexible, decentralised, transparent services are ready for non-technical users.

Because they will be free. And Skype will not be free: the price you will pay, to a software company[1], is your privacy, at the least, and probably more.

1. No software company has a need to know such things. They are not the government, they are not law enforcement, and they are not defenders of national security. They are a software company. Who are they accountable to? It's just not a smart idea to let MS take this role. The potential for abuse is too great.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#14

Let me just make this very clear: you don't go from zero operating cost to multiple millions of hardware and colo space to do the very same thing, in a move so transparent that it needs security researchers to dig into your program to find out it has happened at all. I guess Skype (by extension, Microsoft) is growing interested in what people are speaking about. To get hold of that data you need to route it through y…

Or instead of engaging in conspiracy theores with zero proof we should look at whats going on here rationally. Skype is really unacceptable in any corporate environment. I don't want a random PC on my network to be a superpeer and suddenly use my 50mbps connection routing calls to the world. Run skype for a couple of mins, fire up tcpview, and watch calls come in and out. Not only is this a waste of my resources it also provides a shit experience of dropped calls, sudden drops in quality, and connection issues. The P2P model for video and talk is suboptimal and MS knows their real customers (IT managers and IT buyers) aren't going to go for this.

I have yet to get high quality video to work on skype, even between two clients each with 10+ mbps lines. MS knows this is a problem.

More than likely Skype will be for SMB and residential use and high end enterprise will continue to use Lync or alternatives. This is a welcome move as it legitimizes Skype for many.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#15

MS using Linux to run their business. That says it all. A company with more money than it knows what to do with, acting desperately to save itself from obsolescence. Skype was flawed from the outset, being non-transparent (about how the network is set up, turning machines into supernodes withtout permission, and the encryption they use). It's all closed. Why? You can't verify it's well-designed. Now it's worse. Do I…

I remember when open source P2P VoIP was "being polished" in 2002. I guess if we're lucky we'll get WebRTC, but being from Google it may not satisfy the wannabe cypherpunks.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#16
Just so I understand this: they're switching from direct P2P messages between users (like MSN), to routing the messages through their own data centers first (like Facebook)?

So in theory this will prevent any messages ever getting lost en route to the recipient?

I can't tell you how many messages have gone undelivered between my friends and I when we used to use MSN messenger exclusively (even happens once or twice on Skype), causing serious breakdowns in communication. ("Did you get that message? Did you get that message?)

I always wished they'd switch to this architecture.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#17

MS using Linux to run their business. That says it all. A company with more money than it knows what to do with, acting desperately to save itself from obsolescence. Skype was flawed from the outset, being non-transparent (about how the network is set up, turning machines into supernodes withtout permission, and the encryption they use). It's all closed. Why? You can't verify it's well-designed. Now it's worse. Do I…

If we had 1 good application programmer for every 100 cryptoweenies, the world would be a better place.

Write code or shut the fuck up.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#18
Good to see the grsecurity patch getting a bit of publicity. I think for critical devices it's an essential patch, mostly because of it's integration with the PaX patch which is aimed at preventing many different types of memory overflow exploits.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#19

Let me just make this very clear: you don't go from zero operating cost to multiple millions of hardware and colo space to do the very same thing, in a move so transparent that it needs security researchers to dig into your program to find out it has happened at all. I guess Skype (by extension, Microsoft) is growing interested in what people are speaking about. To get hold of that data you need to route it through y…

That's one possible explanation, and I think there's a healthy amount of skepticism required when analyzing moves like this, but it's not the only explanation.

Keep in mind that a large part of Microsoft's business is in the enterprise, and voice is a huge application product for enterprise customers. Exchange has always had some form of voice integration. I haven't used it in years (since back when H.323 was big), so I don't know the current state of affairs, but it is just as plausible that Microsoft is moving to a more traditional client-server structure in a bid to win the mindshare of enerprise purchasers. I'm particularly attached to this explanation because of my insight in to the telecom industry.

Telcos don't want to sell dumb pipes to customers, because dumb pipes are a commodity. Selling a TDM PRI with 23 voice channels is something anyone can do. Carriers are pushing customers away from these products in to SIP offerings that can integrate with customer applications because these products have high exit costs. I can swap out PRIs three times a year without much trouble. Changing application integration is far more expensive. This creates room for higher margins.

Here's the thing: with Skype, Microsoft can enter this space. I don't know exactly how Skype does it, but they manage to deliver a great VoIP product without any infrastructure considerations (network design, QoS, backhaul constraints). I've used SIP carriers who deliver a router with preconfigured QoS that can't call quality as good as Skype.

I'm not suggesting there's magic here or anything, but Skype's product is damned good. If Microsoft were to integrate Skype in to Exchange, that would give them a customer endpoint that could take advantage of a network designed for voice. Exchange could keep intra-office calls local (like a PBX) and segregated on their on VLAN, while aggregating outside voice traffic on separate network interfaces, much like traditional TDM and SIP based PBX systems. This would check all the right boxes for enterprise voice managers. I'm also willing to bet this would push Skype voice quality over the threshold from end-user novelty to enterprise infrastructure.

There are far too many positive business reasons from a straight forward product standpoint to jump straight to the "this lets them mine customer data" viewpoint.

Re: Skype replaces P2P supernodes with Linux boxes hosted by Microsoft

#20

MS using Linux to run their business. That says it all. A company with more money than it knows what to do with, acting desperately to save itself from obsolescence. Skype was flawed from the outset, being non-transparent (about how the network is set up, turning machines into supernodes withtout permission, and the encryption they use). It's all closed. Why? You can't verify it's well-designed. Now it's worse. Do I…

If we had 1 good application programmer for every 100 cryptoweenies, the world would be a better place. Write code or shut the fuck up.

Code is written. Command line only. So not ready for you yet.

There are good application programmers (who are also competent cryptographers). But it seems, based on mailing list and forum comments, all the incompetent ones hold them in spite. One can only guess why.

Post reply on HN