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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#871

Post by maronato »

nojvek wrote: post #767
AzzyHN wrote: post #723

What would happen if they did order a ceasefire? Who would enforce this?

I feel this is where the world is seeing the failure of US. When US have Ukraine weapons to defend themselves, we were the good guys. When US gives Israel the weapons to attack and airbomb Palestinians in daylight it puts US in a very bad light. US should be the ones enforcing a cease fire. Where no side gets to airbomb each other. Every life is valuable. Israelis or Palestinians. The failure of US policy is to be th…

Giving weapons to Ukraine wasn’t about helping Ukraine; it was about opposing Russia.

Israel is a strategic ally in the Middle East that also happens to have many high profile supporters in the US. There’s likely enormous pressure from within to do just about nothing and just let it play out.

Peace, unfortunately, is a conveniently flexible concept employed to conceal one’s motives and justify frivolous wars.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#872

Post by seydor »

eej71 wrote: post #476
locallost wrote: post #466

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

I think the premise of "the law of retaliation is a moral dead end" is just a high minded pathway to endless violence and anarchy.

israel has already created more terrorists than those it took down. "An eye for an eye" never works

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#873

Post by locallost »

noqc wrote: post #587
locallost wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I knew the answer to that question I would be a high ranked politician. But for me it's important to keep in mind what he is saying here and also in another part explicitly: a diplomatic solution is possible and history proves that. So what I can do is reject the notion that what is happening is unavoidable.

How does history prove any such thing? That's neither how history or proof work. Most of the wars that have been resolved to everyone's benefit have done so by the unconditional surrender of the aggressors, followed by amicable reconstruction.

It provides examples that it happened and thus proves it's possible.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#874

Post by locallost »

megous wrote: post #745
locallost wrote: post #466

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

"Today we are faced with an Islamist cause, led by Hamas. Obviously, this kind of cause is absolute and allows no form of negotiation." Lost me there, because this is not the framing that matches reality. There were several instances where Hamas was willing to form unity government with Fatah/PLO, to share power, negotiate, to do things like that. It's first and foremost a national liberation movement. The movement i…

He says exactly the same. There were in the past, but not today. He says the same thing for Israel - switched from secular to biblical and thus unable to compromise.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#875

Post by curiousgal »

nomdep wrote: post #680
vcryan wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't have to hide being anti-Israel. It's fine. You can be anti-Uganda, anti-France. Be anti-whatever country you like.

Sure, but I don't think is right to use their moderation powers to bend the guideline of this forum to push those views. Quote: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, [...]. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

"Most" does not mean "all".

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#876

Post by Aeolun »

surume wrote: post #783
Aeolun wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would you want October 7th to happen to your family and friends? Obviously not. I just believe you are going about it the entirely wrong way if you want to prevent it. How many Oct 7’s do you think this one-sided conflict will spawn?

What is your proposed alternative that you're alluding to? That seems oddly missing in your comment.

Good question, I’m fairly certain that doing exactly nothing, while of course politically untenable, would be preferable to this.

Kind of a “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” kind of deal.

Find the kidnappers and then surgically take them out. If you’ve no clue how to do that get your single big ally to help you out with that, as they have about 20 years of experience doing exactly that thing.

Even better if your lack of response causes a rift/break in the ranks of your opponents, and half of the hostages get released without conflict.

Of course you’ll eventually have to resign and apologize to the public because it’s much easier for them to be bloodthirsty.

And then, Israel’s PM is bloodthirsty themselves, so it’s all an exercise in futility anyway.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#877

Post by Aeolun »

bart_spoon wrote: post #761
Aeolun wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All correct and yet, what should happen? Happy, fed, employed people do not become terrorists. They have too much to lose.

That is certainly not true. Exhibit A: Osama bin Laden’s father was literally a multi-billionaire and he himself inherited $30-50 million.

You think Osama was happy? The man was clearly very, very angry about something, and I doubt it was inheriting a bunch of money.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#878

Post by Aeolun »

maroonblazer wrote: post #758
Aeolun wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All correct and yet, what should happen? Happy, fed, employed people do not become terrorists. They have too much to lose.

Not if they have more to gain in 'heaven'. Remember, Hamas are religious fanatics.

They have to be religious fanatics because that’s all they have to cling to. If I’m going to fight a losing battle against a grossly superior enemy I also want to believe that I’ll end up in paradise for it.

You might note that that brand of fanaticism goes down rapidly in countries that have high standards of living.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#879

Post by imtringued »

pgeorgi wrote: post #474
locallost wrote: post #466

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

You need an anti Hamas Palestinian force that credibly fights against Hamas and has the support of the Palestinians but it is too late for that now.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#880

Post by slowturtle »

djakaitis wrote: post #714
LightBug1 wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> Any rational person of western ideology, that isn’t myopically viewing this as some oppressed/oppressor academic generalization, gets why Israel must act the way they are acting.

Why must Israel act in a way that includes indiscriminate bombing? Those aren't just my words, by the way, but President Biden's [0], who's a self-proclaimed Zionist. [1]

Isn't it (A) not effective at eliminating Hamas and (B) likely to increase anti-Israel sentiment and radicalize the Gazan population, which is harmful to Israel's long-term security?

[0] https://apnews.com/article/biden-israel-hamas-oct-7-44c4229d... [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/i-am-zionist-how-joe-bidens...

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