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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#841

Post by halflife »

austin-cheney wrote: post #835
mrangle wrote: post #718

The primary problem was always that there are too many parties who have an interest in the existence of Hamas. Put differently, there are too many parties with an interest in using the Palestinians as pawns. Leaving aside the views of any specific Palestinian. As no serious person can dispute the ease of radicalizing destitute people without educations and with PTSD. As long as this is the case, the Palestinians, on…

The problem is tribalism. The primary goal is exclusive dominion, but a distant secondary goal of political and militaristic domination will suffice in the meantime. These aren’t my thoughts or conclusions but the stated goals of several of Israel’s most senior politicians, saying something to the effect of removing the inhabitants so that they can make the desert blossom. The problems here can be solved peacefully a…

Your solution is to make Jews a minority in their own country? The entire reason Israel was created is to have a safe place for Jews to exist and having the power to defend themselves.

Imagining that just “tearing down the walls”, and “why can’t we all just gel along” will work is pretty naive, especially considering history .

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#842

Post by stefan_ »

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #71

I usually refrain from making much political commentary. I will say this: SA is a deeply troubled country, but for once I think the ruling government has actually done a good thing by pursuing this.

This is the same government that was just months prior going to quit the ICC so they could host Putin. They have no credibility, and frankly, no fucking power for most of the day. Utterly failed state.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#843

Post by whalesalad »

teleforce wrote: post #805

Those who want to know the proper history and context of the current conflict, you really owe it to yourself to read this well researched book by Prof Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine [1]. In his latest book he even mentioned Israel - Palestinian latest major war (fifth war in chronological order) in the form of many years of blockade on the people of Gaza. The fact that this book was published sev…

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#844

Post by imagineerschool »

vcryan wrote: post #673
robertoandred wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they’re just trying to gain brownie points from the people who support Hamas.

Is there anyone who supports Hamas? I think most people just want Palestinians to live free.

[dead]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#845

Post by JumpCrisscross »

whalesalad wrote: post #843
teleforce wrote: post #805

Those who want to know the proper history and context of the current conflict, you really owe it to yourself to read this well researched book by Prof Rashid Khalidi, The Hundred Years' War on Palestine [1]. In his latest book he even mentioned Israel - Palestinian latest major war (fifth war in chronological order) in the form of many years of blockade on the people of Gaza. The fact that this book was published sev…

[flagged]

Huh, bemusing to note this is, with a VERY wide brush, Rome v Parthia all over again.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#846

Post by presentation »

nojvek wrote: post #767
AzzyHN wrote: post #723

What would happen if they did order a ceasefire? Who would enforce this?

I feel this is where the world is seeing the failure of US. When US have Ukraine weapons to defend themselves, we were the good guys. When US gives Israel the weapons to attack and airbomb Palestinians in daylight it puts US in a very bad light. US should be the ones enforcing a cease fire. Where no side gets to airbomb each other. Every life is valuable. Israelis or Palestinians. The failure of US policy is to be th…

The US’s motivations are to maximize its power and profits, to think it is to keep the peace is naive. There are other, more economically valuable regions with conflicts in the world whose situations have higher probability of clean resolution than the Palestine conflict, so the US will focus on those instead until it is forced not to.

Anyway, there is no resolution to Israel/Palestine that won’t involve the probable demise of one of the two’s futures. Bloods being spilled and it will continue to be spilled.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#848

Post by halflife »

GordonS wrote: post #286
xenospn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you Israel will most likely ignore any resolution that does not involve the hostages returning.

If they cared about the hostages, they wouldn't be bombing them to death on a daily basis, shooting those that escape, or gassing them in tunnels. The hostages are nothing more than political pawns to Netanyahu. Keep in mind that Hamas reiterated their ceasefire deal recently, which includes the release of all hostages, and Israel rejected it.

It also included the release of the thousands of terrorists that were captured in Israeli borders in oct 7th. People with actual blood on their hands, and a guarantee for hamas to stay in power.

Moreover, Israel offered hamas a ceasefire if they release all the hostages and exile their top 6 leaders. That offer was rejected by hamas.

So please don’t present such a one sided view

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#849

Post by irishloop »

peterashford wrote: post #829
pgeorgi wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

People said Apartheid South Africa couldn't end without a bloodbath. People said peace in Northern Ireland was impossible. People thought the Cold War would never end. Impossible things are impossible until they aren't. I'm not saying that any of these things are easy - they clearly are not. But history shows us again and again that change is possible when people work towards it in good faith. From a practical point…

The Palestine/Israel conflict is significantly longer than any of the examples you gave.

Which is not to say that its impossible. But the older I get, the less hope I have.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#850

Post by riscy »

surume wrote: post #778
riscy wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. The rubble of the numerous civilian homes and buildings you've leveled are the mass graves.

Nope. Those are just buildings. Without people, they are just structures. Again, if Hamas was firing at us from behind civilians (which they do a lot), then we had no choice. You can't just call anything a mass grave for the sake of convenience.

You can’t just call it “collateral damage” for the sake of avoiding the label of genocide while you’re murdering, starving, and barbarically destroying a society of millions of innocent people.
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